I'm not one to winge but!

What the hell is going on. I,m not one to winge but after the rape of the regiment not so long ago, we now have a mascot? Wheres the Regimental Goat we used to have. Oh, I forgot, we are now the 2nd Bn The Royal Regiment of Wales. Am I kidding, I dont think so. Our colours are regimental colours are green and white, ok, we now have a mascot (without the traditional headplate presented to the 1stBn RWF by the people of Lichfield in 1904 as a token of their esteem and services in the South African War. If you go on the website of the Regimental Band of the Royal Welsh and go to the Regimental Mascot (Goat) tab, it shows a very nice picture of a Goat Major wearing full 1 RRW scarlet dress. The Regimental Mascot of the Regimental Band of the Royal Welsh is called Shenkin and is the official mascot of the Royal Welsh. Do'nt believe me, go to their website at www.royalwelshband.com/goat/goat.shtml So, we dont have our colours, we dont have our badge and we do,nt have a goat. I reckon the next move will be green and white hackles. All this from an amalgamated regiment formed a couple of decades ago. I,m not one to winge, but we've been sold down the swanee , hook line and sinker

TO RIGHT DAI I WORK IN MAINDY AND IT DONT LOOK GOOD AT ALL

Even the mess dress has been taken over with green waist coats etc, we where stuffed !!!

Sold down the river is right are fusiliers now privets , whats this with brown berets, are we now part of the gaurds Div.and all these chages on St Davids day, the jocks got to keep there cap badges.

What Was Wrexham Doing To The Run Up To The Amalgamation?
I Find That It Was A Waste Of Time Sending Letters Etc From Our Comrade Branch If You Want Our Comrades Ass, In Caernarfon To Do Something Let me Know.

Do us a favour, if you havnt tried the link on my first post, go on it, you will be absolutely livid. The other major gripe i've got is that if this amalgamation was necessary to streamline the units, and make things easier to manage both logistically and administratively, this means less work in MOD/Whitehall. Can anyone tell me how many senior officers were made redundant? Let me guess, nil, zilch, none. Just a couple of more minutes freetime to spend in their mess sipping G and T's. Thanks Caernarfon, I,m sure we can let HQ know ( if we have one) how upset we all are.

As a Royal Welchman since 1962 and will be till they put me 6 foot under, I find that all that has happened to the regiment is not on. The Royal Welch Fusiliers, is a ROYAL and LOYAL regiment to HM. The RRW (24th/41st) only got the title Royal on amalgamation.

Regarding the goat, the RRW are given their goat, where we are presented with the goat by HM.

I agree that the Scottish Bns have kept their cap badges, yet we, being the oldest regiment in Wales have to have a cap badge that is very smilar to that of the RRW and what makes me even more annoyed is that we have to wear the green patch behind the badge.

I truly believe that we have not been sold out by the REgt HQ, but by the senior officers of the regiment, who could have done more than has been achieved, which is in my opinion is very little. The generals at the MOD, sit in their ivor towers looking at what they can do, knowing full well that the regiments that they come from have not been touched.

I agree, may be we should campaign again to keep the 1 bn rwf Scottish regiments did it why cant the welch fusiliers keep its traditions or are we second class citizens to the m o d , government and the rest of Britain. Val.

Hello all,
There is no point in protesting now, on the the 22nd February 2005 Brigadier RHT Atkin then Colonel of the Royal Regiment of Wales wrote to Major General CH Elliot CVO CBE then Colonel Commandant, Headquaters The Prince of Wales Division saying amongsts other things that " the RRW approach to FIS has been to do as we are told: merge with RWF to form a new regiment" the comment above is from a copy of Brigadier Atkin's letter which was sent to me by Major General Sir Mike Jackson Chief of the General Staff, it is my opinion that matters have now gone too far, I leave to everyone to decide for themselves why the RRW Colonel of the Regiment wrote the letter.
Kind regards to all.
Joe.

i am afraid the next step will be to disband one of the 2 regiments due to lack of recruitment targets,this will happen in the not to distant future,i thought we had a few generals in our midst but they either decided to go with the flow or just never bothered getting involved,oh well thats my whinge for the year,i was am and always will be a royal welchman and as far as i am concerned the new regiment has nothing to do with the royal welch fusiliers,they may as well of disbanded.

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Originally Posted by Smokeyjoe

Hello all,
There is no point in protesting now, on the the 22nd February 2005 Brigadier RHT Atkin then Colonel of the Royal Regiment of Wales wrote to Major General CH Elliot CVO CBE then Colonel Commandant, Headquaters The Prince of Wales Division saying amongsts other things that " the RRW approach to FIS has been to do as we are told: merge with RWF to form a new regiment"

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I agree with Joe, it's now to late, and yes I also feel let down. Everything appears to have been handed over on a plate. The more I learn about the history of our regiment, only serves to increase my disappointment in the way things have panned out. But i'm afraid its too late to complain, that moment was 18 months ago when this site and others were actively campaigning to prevent the merger.

Al

I wasn't going to put my threepenneth in but-- I disagree with Joe but only in that we as Royal Welchmen having done our bit have a right to air our views and I totally agree with Will 38. Those who remember "Colonel Fury" headlines in the seventies will remember a C.O. who raged his complaints on the front pages of the tabloids and continued to have a very worthwhile career. So where were the screams of outrage and betrayal when it came to saving the Regiment? It is only in my very humble and maybe unworthy opinion that necks were told to be wound in, and in a competetive world of "jobs for the boys" serious choices had to be made. In short lads if you were and still are a Loyal Royal Welchman keep airing your views, as it helps sometimes just to get it off your chest and to hell with anyone who thinks otherwise. There I feel a little better already. Regards. Nick

if i seem to remember,no shouting or no to amalgamation came from the RRW,i suppose they were warned resist this move and you go altogether,so they kept it shut,GOD I HATE GREEN......

I also think that Welch assemble, Politicians, Westminster, can be fickle and change their position if the right press and opposition is brought to bare, maybe we should bring this up at the comrades weekend.
All branches, should be told whats going on, as the are not told about this think until its to late.
Their is a branch meeting tonight in wrexham, so hopefully they will let me brooch the subject their, cheers Val.:furious:

if its any cosolation, us who are still serving with the battalion, are going through the same emotions, and its ongoing decusion over many a beers from the the officers mess right down to the jrc.

Well, I'm glad I had a winge, now I know I'm not alone. Hi Gwyn, long time no see. Well, I have always actively campaigned against the ruination of the Regiment by putting letters in the local rags etc to no avail, however, I am not going to stop protesting. I am going to try to attend the reunion this year because its the only thing Royal Welch left ( until the venue goes to Cardiff) but I will not be attending the Parade, I dont want to see a divisional band or The Royal Welsh Band from Cardiff beating retreat and I will not be attending the dinner to hear some top nob giving us a brief on the state of the Regiment. The Royal Welch Fusiliers died on amalgamation, (my opinion) we should have been allowed to leave the British Army with Pride, Dignity and Honour. I feel really sorry for you Beefy, I really do'nt know how you are coping. This is no gripe against the boys in the Regiment, in fact I like to think in my own way that they are chuffed that we are supporting them in this way. These are my own views. If any one wants to carry on the winge, write to your local rags and tell them what state the regiment is in, or like me, email Blair on www.pm.gov.uk and tell how you feel. regards to everyone
Dai

One day in the 1960's (Gordon Bennet - in the last CENTURY!!) I was in town (Wrexham) - probably shoplifting with my mates - can't remember - when I heard this "BOOMPH - BOOMPH - BOOMPH - BOOMPH" - I followed it and got to Chester road, where the swiiming baths are now, and saw this red/white and silver mass coming at me from Llwyn isaf, led by a goat!

I walked alongside the band - entranced - something gripped me just THERE...
... then I walked smack into a lamp post!

I joined the RWF cadet band - B flat flute - then, at 15 signed on - IJLB Oswestry, and, although I was even in their corps of drums, never followed it through when I joined the Regiment - they were in Derry - you went where you were needed.

The next time that something gripped me 'just THERE' was in Berlin, 1989 or 90 - combined Officers'/Sergeant's mess function - Alma day maybe - lots of German hob nobs there too. We're overlooking the sports fields, all is in darkness, we hear the flutes playing "Billy don't be a hero" - from a distance -but you can't see anything.

Then - BANG - the whole band joins in at full throttle and in the same instant a shedload of spotlights hit this mass of red and white and gleaming silver coming at you, led by a goat.

I'd never have told anyone then, but I was glad it was dark... ... tears. Tears of pride, tears of nostalgia.

All taken away.

In Berlin they disbanded our band - that was it for me - the beginning of the end, I saw this coming and worse too, in fact I'm surprised it took this long.

Would Thatcher have let this happen? I doubt it!

The woman had what we had - PRIDE - for all her faults.

Blair and anyone before him, regardless of labour/conservative, basically takes it - we need someone who GIVES it.

Is it better to fight kicking and screaming and then have the will of some one else imposed on you or take control of your own destiny...as far as possible. Imagine the scene of a comitee from from the REME, RLC and RA deciding how the RWF and RRW should merge?
Maybe I feel strongly because I was on the comitte that disscussed these matters. Feel free to respond.Big Grin

Nice one Dai will see you in the Travellers Friday Night with the rest of the Drummers from past and present. I transfered from the Battalion in 1988 to the Ulster Defence Regiment because my emotions for a woman got the better of me. However my heart was always with the Regiment and always will be. I will leave this world knowing that i served with true Loyal and always Royal Welchmen no matter what. what next the newly formed Royal Welsh regiment will join with the Welsh guards and QDG to form the Royal Welsh Dragoon Guards. mmmmmmmmm maybe and then stretch our boys even more to places they shouldn't be because of oil and britain being another state of America.

The wasy things are going forwarfd, I would not be suprised if all the County Regiment titles will go, and the Infantry Battalions will be known as a number only (american style !!!!)

HI Dai, Well i've sent of my E-mail to the PM. Doubt it will do much good as nobody listened to a word I said when I was in, now that i'm a retired old git with a dodgy knee I dont hold much hope for any change there. Stay well Dai.
Regards Nick

I agree with everything that has been said, however we must now bring the "New Royal Welsh" into our family at reunions etc so as they will never forget their roots!! But "We are the galloping 23rd, 24th & 41st" just doesn't seem to have the same ring about it.

This could cause a stir, but go back to 1990-92 when there was talk of us merging with 1 Cheshire - I believe we hired Saatchi & Saatchi to get us out of that one and prolong the agony.

Would that seem a better option NOW?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Personally, from Wrexham I would have had more in common - geographically - with 1 Cheshire; our Regiment is full of Deesiders etc. We would both have loved a Chester posting.

I also knew a lot more of them than I did RRW members. A very very keen sporting regiiment too.

But they were one 'foot' senior to us - DAMN!!!

22/23rd of foot - better than 23/24/41?

I agree with you their Richie, but cant we do both, the lads serving now will always be fusiliers, Val.

Come on Rich an English Reg you keep forgeting that the boys in our Reg are from all over Wales not only North Wales Im not into this RRW thing but we can still call the Reg Welsh

Another thing that i cant fathom is why the new bn is named Royal Welsh ,and not Royal Welch, is it not a welch regiment or did we take all the rrw traditions and kept the hackle, surly no one agreed to this, Val.

I agree with Jimmy, there are vast differences between an English Regt and the Royal Welch, for a start what would happen about Dai's Day would the English put up with us Welsh celebrating what is essentially a welsh tradition and on that point would we put up with the english celebrating St George's Day. I hate this merger, I think it was done for all the wrong reasons and it just goes to show how much Bush is pulling Blairs strings but as we had no choice, merging with the RRW was the better option out of a bad choice. Remember we may have lost our cap badge but we've kept the, what is to me, the more important symbols of OUR regiment - The Flash & Hackle

Think About It Guys We Did Not Want It Nor Did The Rrw But It Has Happend, I Look At It This Way, One Of Three Things Could Of Happend 1, We Could Of Been Disbanded, 2, We Could Of Gone With English Regts, ( Think Back To The Last Big Shake Up ) 3, Well Its Happend, So I Think It Could Of Been A Lot Worse At Least We Keep A Welsh Regt. I No Dout That Some Of You Think Im Talking Out My ****, Ive Put A Lot Of Thought In To This And I Think Both The Higher Arky Of The Two Regiments Tried To Stop It Happening But Times Change, Bitch About It As Much As You Want Its Happened, So Guys Sorry Deal With It. The Good Times We All Had That Is What Is The Thing. Ps Hope To See All Of You In Wrexham Next Weekend

With regard to what I see as a general backlash against the merger on these pages, as an ex RRW man perhaps you may be interested in my two pennyworth. I joined the South Wales Borderers in 1960 and from the day I joined it was drummed into me that regimental pride was everything. Loyalty to your section first, then your platoon, then your company, but above all loyalty to the regiment. The date of the formation of the regiment – 28 Jan 1689, the Battle of Rorkes Drift, the 23 VCs and many other facts were carried with us wherever we went. 1SWB was a tremendous battalion with a proud history (and a cracking badge!), and in 1969 we amalgamated with the Welch Regiment. The new regiment, the Royal Regiment of Wales came into existence whether individual soldiers wanted it or not, it was a done deal. The new CO and RSM worked tirelessly to ensure that previous regimental rivalry was not allowed to cause friction, and in due course we became as proud of 1RRW as we had been of 1SWB and 1 Welch.

Now we have the merger of 1RWF and 1RRW. whatever we say, once again it is a done deal. Comrades are ex- members of RWF, SWB, Welch Regt and even the Monmouthshire Regt, and that cannot be changed by anyone. I left in 1994 and am therefore ex-SWB and ex-RRW. Future comrades will be members of the Royal Welsh.

The comrades branches to me are a means of keeping in touch with all our old mates, and that is probably the most important service the branches provide. I feel that whatever is said on these pages, some things won’t change: loyalty to our original regiments and comradeship with our old mates. In Brecon Branch we have a great relationship with the local RWF Branch, and invite each other to functions on a regular basis. At this, the lowest level, whether we combine branches or not, we are just old soldiers meeting up in comradeship. Long may it continue. Uniform details may change without our consent, but what will not change is individual loyalties and the comradeship of old soldiers everywhere.

Sorry about the date in my last post 24th was formed on 28 March 1689, not 28 Jan!

having read the posts above i agrea with most of whats been said, they can change our cap badge/berret/regimental name but one thing these fools cant change is the proud history of our regiment.

Ken,
Well written comments regarding the merger, it sometimes helps to have another view of the situation, thank you.
Regards,
Joe.

I know recruiting numbers are very low , in both Bns but the first bn that will disband is always the 2 bn of the Regiment . Val.

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Originally Posted by taffylooneytoon

I know recruiting numbers are very low , in both Bns but the first bn that will disband is always the 2 bn of the Regiment . Val.

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That would depend if they valued Armoured or Light Role the most. If you take a look at the recent mergers/amalgamations more closely you will see that the above statement does not ring true. The powers that be will do what they want. Not what seems right or sensible to us at the sharp end. However everyones entitled "to wish upon a star".

could not agree with you more

I'm not Whingeing
But That's why they formed a Large Infantry Regiment of Wales, so both Bn's can support each other. I Think if you look at the long term, the 1st Bn R Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers) when they return back to the Dale Barracks Chester, you'll find that a load of the lads will be posted to the 2 Bn R Welsh (Royal Regiment of Wales) in Tidworth to support the so called operational Bn (Armoured Infantry). So this "home" Bn **** won't work, I believe that the 1st Bn will get all the problem children from both Bn's (i.e Retards, Welfare cases etc), I probably shouldn't have looked at it in that context, but Hey people lets get in the real world.
BennytheBall

Hello Snake,
Re your e mail on the 24th. What has Rorkes Drift to do with the South Wales Borderers? It was "B" Coy of the 2nd Batt Warwickshire Regt who defended the Drift. And their regt march was "The Warwickshire Lads" And no one sang "Men of Harlech".The Warwickshire Regt were disbanded in 1881 some 3 years after the defence of the Drift. This was done in the Cardwell reforms of the regular Army.At the very best guess only 19 men at the Drift could lay any tenuous claim to Welsh ancestry, which means the Welsh contingent at the Drift was 15% and that is stretching the truth a little bit. Other famous authors quote 11 Welshmen in one book and 13 in another book.I respectfully suggest you read "The Noble 24th" by Ian Knight for a true story.


Regards Don

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Originally Posted by richard@jungle1810.wanadoo

Hello Snake,
Re your e mail on the 24th. What has Rorkes Drift to do with the South Wales Borderers? It was "B" Coy of the 2nd Batt Warwickshire Regt who defended the Drift. And their regt march was "The Warwickshire Lads" And no one sang "Men of Harlech".The Warwickshire Regt were disbanded in 1881 some 3 years after the defence of the Drift. This was done in the Cardwell reforms of the regular Army.At the very best guess only 19 men at the Drift could lay any tenuous claim to Welsh ancestry, which means the Welsh contingent at the Drift was 15% and that is stretching the truth a little bit. Other famous authors quote 11 Welshmen in one book and 13 in another book.I respectfully suggest you read "The Noble 24th" by Ian Knight for a true story.


Regards Don

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Sorry Don you won't get us to rise on that one especially with the amount of Scousers in the 1st Bn with RWF heritage.:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Hello,
That is exactly the point I am trying to put over. Any man of any religion and domiciled in the U.K. can join any regiment he chooses. That is the point of my question. Why mention the S.W,B. in relation to the Drift? In point of fact a lot of "Scousers" and Englishmen chose to join the R.W.F. it only goes to highlight their intelligence. I mixed and had a lot of fun with men from all parts of the Principality, and from other parts of the UK.
Regards to all.
RBD

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Originally Posted by richard@jungle1810.wanadoo

Hello,
That is exactly the point I am trying to put over. Any man of any religion and domiciled in the U.K. can join any regiment he chooses. That is the point of my question. Why mention the S.W,B. in relation to the Drift? In point of fact a lot of "Scousers" and Englishmen chose to join the R.W.F. it only goes to highlight their intelligence. I mixed and had a lot of fun with men from all parts of the Principality, and from other parts of the UK.
Regards to all.
RBD

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The reason they mention it is because it is part of the history of the SWB. The Warwickshires became the SWB a few yrs after the Drift when it was still quite fresh in peoples minds. Are we to forget the history of our fine Regiments. The history of the RWF, SWB, The Welch Regt and the RRW are all now part of the history of The Royal Welsh (including Rorke's Drift) and we will remember the battle honours that will adorn the new colours and we shall always remember those that died in yrs gone by.