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Welcome captainadjutantrwf, Please take a moment and introduce yourself to the Royal Welch community in this forum. Just share a bit about yourself. For instance, whether or not you are/were a serving member of the Regiment or Armed Forces, what your interests are and how you plan to use the site.
Thank you for the welcome Bob Bacon and all RWF Forum Members.
Can I firstly say my thoughts are with your people serving overseas at the moment; may your God protect you in the discharge of your duties, which the Nation knows you will discharge with maximum bravery and professionalism and bring you safely home to your loved ones soonest.
We were not at all surprised to hear that The RWF are at the forefront of operations.
So to my ulterior motive; I believe my late father, Capt William Cochran Cochran, who would have been 100 this year had he not succumbed to Parkinsons' Disease 25 years ago, was Adjutant to The RWF circa 1939-45.
I understand also he was at El Alamein before a shrapnel evacuation to Loutraki, Greece, sustained at Monte Casino.
Does anyone have any records they could post here, please; I would say memories of him but it seems unlikely any Member of this Forum would have those!
I have one or two photos of him in Uniform/ with pals in Greece if they would be any use to anyone.
Thanks again for your attention; being not a Military Man myself, I hope I have the right Regiment and am not mis-understanding the purpose of this site.
Best wishes.
We need someone to do a look up please(I'm out of the UK at the mo) in Red Dragon.
I think he must have been in one of the RWF independent units if he served at Alamein and Monte Cassino. I know the 6th (RWF) Parachute Bn fought in Italy and I seem to recall that an RWF unit served in the desert. If its not RWF, then it may be The Welch Regiment.
Thanks ap1.
Your kind attention is very much appreciated.
Dad never mentioned parachutes!
However, "independent" may be more like it; he was born in Shanghai, China and (family) legend has it that he joined the British Army in India direct from there pre-WW2, being then called "home" in 1939 when he was 29 and (seeing England for the first time in his life) was posted to Worthing Sussex on the South Coast, where they were building defences against invasion.
Of course I do not have his Service Record and do not know whether that was as part of The RWF or not, although I have to say he only ever talked of "The Royal Wels(c?)h Fusiliers."
Sorry we don't have any more information, but any facts anyone's research may unearth (including a "nil return") would be most useful.
Thanks again and very best wishes.
Ok, I think possibly the 2nd Bn may have been abroad at the onset of the war, but that will need verifying. Although in 1942 the 2nd Bn sailed to Madagascar and eventiually ended up in Burma. The regiment has The Middle East 1942 on its battle honours, so someone was there. Until we can check Red Dragon or That Astonishing Infantry we won't be able to get any further.
Incidentally the 6th(RWF) Parachute Bn served in both Italy and Greece!!!!!
Do you have his medals or his service number?
Hello again ap1 and renewed thanks for your help.
In view of your location, I now feel really guilty bothering you with these "idiot boy" questions.
I'm sure you're right; let's put the research on the proverbial back-burner for now.
Perhaps in the meantime I'll be able to do something useful and try to find out my late father's Service Number etc - I'm sure we used to have some papers in our safe, but we had a burglary a year ago and it was emptied........
Unless of course any other helpful people who may read this thread have any further thoughts......
Meanwhile also please take very good care.
Sincerely.
The 6th (RWF) Para Bn landed at Oran after the defeat of the Axis forces in North Africa, so would probably not have qualified for the Battle Honour. No other RWF infantry was there, certainly not in 1942. Perhaps we should look at the converted Territorials who became AT and LAA Regiments. Will take a lot of digging as they rarely made it into the official histories. And of course we're still waiting for RRRWF vol V!
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconwallah
Thats what I was thinking John. The reference I made about the RWF being in the desert related to one of those converted units.....
captainadjutantrwf Please don't feel guilty, Im here in Kabul by choice, and very happy to try and assist. I should point out my experience over here is very different from the young guys serving in my old regiment. We all wish them a safe tour and speedy return.
The info we are looking for will be in Red Dragon and That Astonishing Infantry. Its possible your father may even get a mention in Red Dragon if he was Adj at the time of conversion. Every RWF battalion has a short history of their WW2 experiences in that book.
OK ap1.
Thanks anyway. Red Dragon sounds a promising one for the future.
I'll now go away and research Service Number etc and will get back a s a p.
Hopefully my comeback will be every bit as good as the Welsh lads on Saturday!!
Cheers for now.
Bore da everybody.
Found it.
According to the Rev Frederick's Lineage Book 1660-1978 the 5th RWF was converted to 60th (RWF) ATR on 16/11/1938, then redesignated 101st (RWF) LAA/ATR on 15/08/1940, then again redesignated 76th (RWF) ATR on 01/11/1940. (Interestingly, this information is not in "That Astonishing Infantry" which only mentions 60th ATR. I do not have "Red Dragon" so could not check that. A scanned copy in The Vault would be very useful indeed!)
Col Joslen in his Orders of Battle 1939-1945 says that the 76th ATR served with 1st Armoured Div from 22/09/1942 to 31/03/1944.
In other words, 76th (Royal Welch Fusiliers) AT Regiment fought with 1st Armoured Div (X Corps) at El Alamein, armed with 64 6-pounders. A well deserved Battle Honour "North Africa 1942", I'd say.
The other converted units (ex-5th RWF and ex-12th RWF) were 60th ATR (reconstituted), 70th ATR, 71st ATR and 116th LAAR. None of these qualifies for this Battle Honour.
For the uninitiated, just to be sure: ATR = Anti-Tank Regiment, LAAR = Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment. Both belonged to the Royal Artillery.
John
Some additional info (from CE Lucas Phillips, "Alamein"):
76 ATR had one battery (ZZ Bty, Major R Crouch) armed with 6-pdrs on lightly armoured vehicles ("Deacons"). The other batteries used Austin lorries ("portees") with a high profile.
76 ATR was attached to 2nd Armoured Brigade. It fought in the attack on the German strongpoint coded "Aberdeen" in the sector of 51st Highland Division and took part (239th Bty, Lt AF Baer) in the famous stand at "Snipe" (27/10/1942) where 2nd Rifle Brigade held off a counterattack by a large number (more than 30) of German tanks and self-propelled guns.
John
Excellent stuff John. Im sure Red Dragon will have a small piece on the unit. Although they were re-roled under the RA, they were certainly considered to be RWF by the men and the regiment.
Although looking through the Roll of Honour in the Vault(lifted from Red Dragon), I don't think there casualties are included, I may be wrong.
Hi All.
Hope all's well with you and yours.
I made some enquiries a year ago about my late father's service and received some helpful replies for which I was most grateful.
Basically it was recommended I should contact Army Personnel Centre Glasgow, which I did and received a pile of photocopy documents from 1938 to 1946 plus his ORIGINAL "Officer's Record of Service - Army Book 439" which was fantastic.
Renewed thanks for your help.
At last, I have typed-up 7 pages of Notes covering his enlistment with 2/RWF in Shanghai 29/1/1938, transfer to 30/RWF 4/8/1942, that he may have been at El Alamein(?), posting to 31/RWF 4/1/1943, Officer Training Barmouth 1943, his Commission 25/6/43 into 18 Welch (attached 4/RWF) and transfer to 9/RWF 15/10/1943. It seems that as a War Substantive Lieutenant he was then assigned to The Royal Fusiliers (not Welch) upon arrival in the Italian Campaign. He sustained a shrapnel injury at Monte Cassino, was made "Acting Captain" 2/8/1944 and Adjutant on extra 3/- per day - not as I thought within The RWF - but of 2nd Battalion Royal Fusiliers and that there was another injury before release date 9/1/1946 and the award of The Honorary Rank Of Captain.
The Name was William Cochran Cochran (that's not a mistype by the way), his Army Number 4192639 and his Commission Number281796. His 100th birthday would have been last year, but he passed away in 1985.
Would anybody be interested in my 7 pages of notes? If so, I have them available as a "PDF Document" but am unsure where and how to post it on The Forum.......
All the best.
His youngest son, Dennis Cochran.
Thanks for the update Dennis. Its good to get feedback. If you can forward the PDF file to me I will ensure it is placed into our on-line archive "The Vault"
Thanks again
ap1,
Thanks for the reply.
I'll try and get it onto your page ( not very good with these things, but one for the Regimental historians methinks!).
God's blessings to all at WRF,
Sincerely.
Dennis.
Hi ap1.
I've tried all sorts of things, but can't get through on your Facebook page(!).
You'll have to excuse my ignorance I'm afraid.
However, I'm hoping the PDF will be attached to this message.....
I think I've netered it under "Additional Options" below....fingers crossed.
Dennis.
Thanks Dennis, I have combined the threads.
Couple of interesting things there. Firstly unless i'm reading it wrong. He was attested and went straight into the Bn at Shanghai. The fact that he was already on a Section Commanders Cadre 7 months into his service, indicates he had already proved himself to his peers. It may also be worth digging around to see what the Bn were up to in the Sudan in 1938. Some of our guys might be able to assist.
He had a run of minor discipline issues in 41. He was dealt with by the CO Lt Col HC Stockwell. I'm not sure how much you know about the regiment, but he commanded the Suez Operation in the 50's and later become Dep Supreme Commander Europe. Like your father, I also met him, but fortunately for me not on CO's Orders, but as a young fusilier, when he visited the 1st Bn in the early 80's.
WIKI
"In 1960, on the advice of Viscount Montgomery of Alamein, Stockwell was appointed Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO, a post which he held until his retirement in 1964.[15] Stockwell was described as a "surprise choice" for the position because he had never attended Staff College, Camberley, and had "spent his whole career as a fighting soldier."[16] As Deputy Supreme Allied Commander, he worked to promote the creation of strong conventional forces, and advocated "the use of tactical nuclear weapons only as a last resort."
Thanks for the PDF, very interesting. A great example of wartime service and how people quickly move up the chain of command. Similar in fact to Stockwell. Who was a Major in 1940 and a Major General in 1945!!!!
Hello Baconwallah,
I will have a quick shufti at my copy of the Red Dragon asap, and come back if I find any news.
Regards RBD aka jungle1810
Hello All,
5th Battalion (60th Anti tank Regiment, R.A. (R.W.F.)
In November 1938 the 5th Battalion Flintshire Battalion (R.W.F. was converted to an Anti Tank Regiment, A new type of unit. mainly through the efforts of the then Honorary Colonel Sir Randle Mainwaring and of the Adjutant Captain C.H.V. Pritchard the privilege of the continued wearing of the Royal Welch uniform (Flash) was secured, and the transfer took place with a minimum of disturbance. The title of the new unit was 60th (R.W.F.) Anti tank Regiment.R.A. (T.A.) but this was changed many times in the next 10 years.
Hugh Mainwaring son of the Honorary Colonel who joined the Battalion in 1936 as a Company Commander after 10 years service with the 10th Hussars. leaving the regiment in early 1940 he was appointed to a succession of of Staff jobs, ultimately becoming G.S.O.1 (Ops) to the 8th Army. where he helped plan for the battle of El Alemein. Whilst still at Fleet the Regiment was honoured by being selected from amongst all Anti tank Regiments for conversion into a new type of unit for inclusion in the 1st Armoured Division at that time the only Armoured Division in the British Army.Information taken from "The Red Dragon" By Commander P.K.Kemp and John Graves.
More later
Regards RBD aka jungle1810
Thanks very much, Don.
The unit later became 76 ATR and as such fought at Alamein. They were the only Welch Fusiliers to serve with the Eighth Army in the desert.
John
Hello Baconwallah,
In May 1941 the Regiment were ordered over seas, they sailed in the S.S.Mendoza on the 30th of September and reached Suez on the 20th of November.The Division were concentrated at Amirya 15 miles west of Alexandria. They departed on the 19th of December 1941 for the Western Desert.The support group of 1st Armoured Division which included the Regiment were sent up to take over the protective screens.On the 18th of January 1942 the enemy were reported to have very few tanks left,attacked in strength and forced the light columns to fall back.Morale sunk when it was found that the 2 pounder anti tank gun was not a match for the German mark 3 and mark 4 tanks.
The Regiment continued to fight in the desert On the 28th of August General Horrocks arrived to take command of 13 Corps. he held "O" groups to let all ranks know of his Orbat plans.The Regiment continued to fight in the desert. In May1944, orders were received to prepare for a move to Italy.
5th Battalion in 1939 converted to 60th (R.W.F.) Anti Tank Regiment R.A.
Commanding Officers of the 5th.
Lt/Col F.H.Bortwick D.S.O. 9/6/16
Lt Col T.H.Parry D.S.O. 16/2/20.
Lt Col R.C.Lloyd D.S.O. (temporary) 1/9/20
Lt Col T.F.Ash, T.D. -----
Lt Col E.M.W.Williams D.S.O. 20/6/23
Lt Col H.M. Davies, T.D. 27/4/33.
Lt Col S.H.Burton. 27/4/38.
Lt Col H.Sheriff Roberts -/7/39
On the 15th of February 1940 the Regiment was broken up-237 battery went to 101st L.A.A. and A/T Regiment,and 238, and 240 Batteries dispersed to other Regiments. In November 1940, the A.T. Section of 101st L.A.A. became the 76th Anti tank Regiment, but it was not until January-March 1944 that the R.W.F. Association was renewed when the 76th Regiment was re-formed as the 60th (R.W.F.) anti Tank Regiment.
Lt Col R.J.H.Harding- Newman 25/11/44.
Lt Col J.E.Evans.* -------
On the 1st of January 1947, re-designated 384 (Royal Welch Fusiliers ) Anti tank Regiment.
On re-organisation of T.A.1950 re-designated 384 light Regiment R.A.
In May 1956 amalgamated wityh 361 Medium Regiment as 372 Light Regiment R.A. (T.A.)
* Was a Second Lieutenant with the original 60 S.T. Regiment in 1939.
Regards RBD aka jungle1810
That is very complete indeed, Don, and better than what I had. Thanks!
John
Now I remember Dennis :-)
The Cpl Hubbard who enlists him, ends up as the RSM in Burma.
Thank you for reconnecting me to The Forum. I recently came across not only the attached, but also the fact that my Uncle, John Claude Pope (Army Number 202796), was a fusilier and probably introduced my father to his sister (my mother) in Worthing, Sussex in 1940/41. John Pope was a Lieutenant (maybe War Substantive Captain?) and as far as I can tell transferred to 12 Para, being parachuted into Normandy in June 1944 when his CO may well have been Lt Col Stockwell (?) also connected to RWF. He also relinquished his commission in 1950. Thereafter he was in N Ireland and my interest was recently reawakened when his grand-daughter in Belfast got in touch, having tracked down her father after 44 years and traced the rest of the family (and history) through him. Regrettably COVID is preventing her from meeting with her father at present.https://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/at...tid=7487&stc=1