saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

I have revisited a National Archives File WO 361/41 which deals with the missing DLI men from 1940.As I have previously stated Anthonys name (mis-spelled Corthill) has a line through it with `DEAD` alongside with the Reference `Q80`.Rather than speculate as to the meaning of `Q80` I have emailed the National Archives in London with the following enquiry;-

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I have recently being looking into the fate of `The Missing Men 1940` in particular The DLI (Catalogue Ref WO 361/41) Pg 605 gives a summary of the fate of these men but certain hand written references have me puzzled namely;- Q80 ,Q57 , UP-57 ,UP-47 and UP-16. Do you have any record as to what these `Q` and `UP` references refer to? It is important that I find out in particular what Reference Q80 refers to or contains.If these references are Files then they could hold the key to a 72 year search for information on a known 2 DLI casualty Pte Anthony Corkhill .Any help wor advice would be greatly appreciated.Thank You.

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The `Q80` reference applies to two men only on the list;-

Pte A Corthill (Corkhill) Regimental number 4449147 no known grave Dunkirk Memorial

Pte W T Smith Regimental No 4449353 (William Thomas Smith son of George John and Ethel Smith; husband of Annie M. Smith, of Send, Surrey according to the CWGC died 15th May 1940 buried Section VII. Row B. Grave 18.Leopldsburg War Cemetery)

Of the other `Q` Reference `Q57` refers to Pte Harold Clarke Regimental number on roll 4442265 (This is a typo the correct number was 4442263) Harold died of wounds (Possibly received at St Venant on the 27th May ?)at Dunkirk and is buried in Dunkirk Town Cemetery Plot 2 Row 11 Grave 5.
4436524 Warrant Officer Class III Thomas Furby Mason (AA Platoon Hq Company) according to the `Townsend diary`died as a Prisoner of War.The CWGC lists him as dead between 10/05/1940 and 01/06/1940 buried at St Venant Cemetery Plot 4. Row C. Grave 59.

4445266 Pte James William Patton Son of John Robert and Isabella Patton; husband of Jessie Mary Patton, of Derby died of wounds
according to CWGC between 10/05/1940 and 04/06/1940 buried Leopoldsburg Cemetery Section VII. Row C. Grave 11.

The `UP` designation ,although not directly relevant to Anthony seems to refer to other 2 DLI who have either a date of death of between or known to have died of wounds (Two listed by the CWGC as 6th and 8th DLI not 2nd DLI???).
Hopefully we will find out soon what the `Q` reference definately is and if there are files associated to it.

Best

Jim

jim.
in your thread 323 you refer to 'Q' forms any connection ?

Very interesting indeed, Jim! If 'Q80' refers to a source, it must be traceable!

John

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Originally Posted by vori101

jim.
in your thread 323 you refer to 'Q' forms any connection ?

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Hello Ivor,
Yes at the bottom of the questionaires for returning PoWs there is a section which asks if anyone has any knowledge of War Crimes if so they should complete Form `Q` I have always assumed that this `Q` reference was one and the same but I have now learnt not to `assume` anything hence my enquiry to the Archives.

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Very interesting indeed, Jim! If 'Q80' refers to a source, it must be traceable!

John

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Yes John my thoughts exactly ..they are sure of Anthonys fate..will Q80 reveal why they are so sure?

Best
Jim

A reference to Forms 'Q':

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...ATID=13403&j=1

Doesn't sound very hopeful.

John

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Originally Posted by Baconwallah

A reference to Forms 'Q':

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...ATID=13403&j=1

Doesn't sound very hopeful.

John

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Hello John,
No it doesnt bode well if `Q80` does refer to a War Crime report but it will, if it is confirmed as such, give us a clear path to follow..that of a murder rather than a died of wounds? I will await there confirmation or otherwise ...these `Q` references must relate to something we can gain some sort of guidance from? I am busy going through the battalion casualty lists for that period to see if we can gain any leads...so many with no known graves..either `known to god` or else theres still a mass grave out there somewhere?

Oh while I remember one of those DLI who were classed as a `Missing Man` was last seen having been wounded through the leg being loaded onto a Manchester Regt truck...then nothing...no further trace..

Best

Jim

I have just sent an email to the head of the War Crimes Research and Documentation Centre of the University of Marburg, Germany, setting out the facts as we know them. Fingers crossed.

John

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Originally Posted by Verrieres

Oh while I remember one of those DLI who were classed as a `Missing Man` was last seen having been wounded through the leg being loaded onto a Manchester Regt truck...then nothing...no further trace..

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If that was the burning ammunition lorry belonging to the Manchesters which was standing along the road to Haverskerque, which it may well have been, I don't think he survived long enough to be taken to a field hospital.

John

hi
i have been browsing back threads in research and found this from Oct 2010. it was started on 10,10, by Swiper and is entitled '' Two unknown RWF Soldiers - not quite.'' the quote below is from a post by ap1

''This is how GWGC describes the churchyard. "St. Floris is a village and commune 40 kilometres north-north- west of Arras and 10 kilometres north-north-west of Bethune. In the churchyard, east of the church and near the local war memorial, are the graves of 7 soldiers from the United Kingdom, 3 of them, whose graves could not be precisely located, are commemorated by special memorials, i.e., inscribed "Buried near this spot".''

interesting

ivor

That description would fit a lot of cemeteries across northern France and Belgium, from both world wars. What exactly is your point, Ivor?

Seven men of 1 RWF were killed at St Floris on the 23rd. There are seven graves, three of which are marked "Buried near this spot". The only mystery is why one of the seven would be in the CWGC records as having been killed on the 26th.

John