Captain (?) John Jones 2 RWF 1939-1945

Hi gents.

I have what might be a slightly difficult task for you but one that would mean an awful lot if you could dig anything up.

I am trying to track down any information on my Grandfather who served in the 2nd Battalion the Royal Welch during WW2. His name was John Jones (hardly original I know but his story is at least slightly unusual).

I've always been led to believe that he was commissioned from the ranks and ended up a Captain. He would have been between 30-35 years old at the outbreak of the war (or thereabouts). Again there is a suspicion that he was a regular before the war.
John Jones served with the 2 RWF as part of Operation Ironclad. He used to describe to my father the battleship HMS Ramillies shelling the shore and the incredible noise and smoke that almost made it look as though the bloody boat had blown up! I believe he was a Sergeant at the time of Madagascar. I have no idea whether he went on to Burma with the rest of the battalion afterwards. He rarely discussed his war service and I am led to believe that it was a highly sensitive subject with him that he didn't encourage debate in (like most blokes that had seen action and lost friends I imagine).
He was originally from Tywyn (or at least he definately played for Tywyn Bluebirds Football Team as a younger man) and was a Welsh speaker. I believe that after the war he ran a Newsagent. Sadly he died of Motor Neurones disease sometime in the late 60s.

Obviously any assistance that anyone can offer with this one is going to be appreciated more than mere words can describe. There's nothing like knowing about your blood. I was born and raised in London and have little contact with my Welsh family. It's always really bothered me that I know so little about him (I'm a War Studies MA and as anyone knows not being able to talk about your own familes military record when you pretend to be a History buff is a bit slack). I know more about my Great Great Grandad that served eighty years before him in the Connaught Rangers which doesn't seem on to me somehow...

Kind regards

Gareth-Rhys

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Our main source of info for Madagascar is "The Red Dragon" which covers the RWF from 1919-1945. The author is Lt Comdr Kemp, have a look on www.abebooks.com its out of print, and normally retails 2nd hand from about £25 upwards. It covers the Madagascar operation in some detail. Hopefully one of our members will have a look through, just in case we can find a mention of him. Do you have his service number?

Also Gareth, have a look in "The Vault" on this site. http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin...y&categoryid=5

There is some stuff from Forum Member vcj123, whose father was a company commander in the 2nd Bn; Major Simmons, who won the MC in the battle. One of the documents is a concert party programme from India, featuring a Sgt Jones DCM! This would have been after Madagascar. Either way the documents give you a small insight into the 2nd Bn at that period.

Finally you may like to read the biography of the then CO Hughie Stockwell written by Jon Riley, which is a great read, and again gives a blow by blow account of the action.

ap1,
Cheers for that, interesting reads, some fabulous memories and history saved for future generations. Such an important thing to maintain. I'll have a nose around for those books too, esp. as Madagascar is a subject I know little about.

I don't have his service number unfortunately, though that's something I'll make a concerted effort to track down now.

If anyone used to have stories told to them by their Grandads/Fathers about mates in the 2 RWF, he had a younger brother called Chris Jones who was captured at Tobruk and held POW by the Italians.

Thanks again mate!

If you have any of his medals the service number will be printed on the edge. Good luck on your quest.
Dilwyn

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Originally Posted by Thom15

If you have any of his medals the service number will be printed on the edge. Good luck on your quest.
Dilwyn

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I think not, unless he had service in the ranks WWI or Waziristan 21-24. British WWII medals were not named, a rather sad pennypinching decision.

One option as Next of Kin is to write to the Ministry of Defence and request his service papers, I think (have not tried it myself) that they will charge for this. Will try to look up contact details.

Another option is to find his commission or promotion details on the London Gazette, but as you say it is not a promising surname for that.

Good Luck!

Without John's service number, its unlikely the service records will be forthcoming. Are you happy Gareth that his full name is John Jones, or is there other initials.

Looking through the WW2 Honours List, The Sgt with the DCM I mentioned in my previous post is either Sgt TJ Jones, this was awarded in 1940, he was probably a 1st Bn guy, possibly to have been later transferred to the 2nd after the evacuation, or Sgt RO Jones awarded at Madagascar(most likely).


http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin...e&articleid=69

We need to firstly check through Red Dragon, concentrating on the 2nd BN to see if we can identify any SNCO's with the initials J Jones, it's possible his commision may just warrant a mention. Especially if its come through at a time, when other news was not so good. I'm not at home at the moment, so unfortunately I'm unable to do that. In addition, it might be worth looking at the Regimentals Records 1946 onwards, just to see if a Capt J Jones apppears on any of the nominal rolls, immediatley after the war, in a (QM) post(some of our members have that volume).

Finally Gareth, one of the forum members; username Don Matthews is a resident at the Chelsea Hospital. Don fought with the 2nd Bn in Burma from mid 1944 onwards. He just may recall him, especially as he was in authority, Don is a regular visitor to the website, you can contact him via the member list.

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Originally Posted by LarsA

I think not, unless he had service in the ranks WWI or Waziristan 21-24. British WWII medals were not named, a rather sad pennypinching decision.

One option as Next of Kin is to write to the Ministry of Defence and request his service papers, I think (have not tried it myself) that they will charge for this. Will try to look up contact details.

Another option is to find his commission or promotion details on the London Gazette, but as you say it is not a promising surname for that.

Good Luck!

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Cheers Lars. I tried the Army Personnel Office but they wouldn't release any information to me as I'm not direct next of kin, ie, my father is still alive so any information I request would have to have the permission of him. Seemed a little harsh to me.

I've e-mailed my old man to try and see if he has his service number and any additional information, though we'll see if I even get a response. Thank you for your advice, much appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ap1

Without John's service number, its unlikely the service records will be forthcoming. Are you happy Gareth that his full name is John Jones, or is there other initials.

Looking through the WW2 Honours List, The Sgt with the DCM I mentioned in my previous post is Sgt TJ Jones, this was awarded in 1940, he was probably a 1st Bn guy, likely to have been later transferred to the 2nd after the evacuation.

http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin...e&articleid=69

We need to firstly check through Red Dragon, concentrating on the 2nd BN to see if we can identify any SNCO's with the initials J Jones, it's possible his commision may just warrant a mention. Especially if its come through at a time, when other news was not so good. I'm not at home at the moment, so unfortunately I'm unable to do that. In addition, it might be worth looking at the Regimentals Records 1946 onwards, just to see if a Capt J Jones apppears on any of the nominal rolls, immediatley after the war, in a (QM) post(some of our members have that volume).

Finally Gareth, one of the forum members; username Don Matthews is a resident at the Chelsea Hospital. Don fought with the 2nd Bn in Burma from mid 1944 onwards. He just may recall him, especially as he was in authority, Don is a regular visitor to the website, you can contact him via the member list.

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Thanks ap1 for that, some great advice!

As for other initials, I know the name Charles is a common name in the family so J.C Jones is a possibility. The trouble is that my dad's family all had a habit of being known by their middle names, my dads name is John but he doesn't go by it.

As I mentioned earlier I've emailed my father to try and get any additional information. We'll see where that leads; of course I'll post the full story up as soon as/if I hear back from him. I've got to go to Kew at the weekend for thesis research, so I'll get the 2 RWF files relating to Ironclad and go through it looking for names. They often list senior N.C.O's and officers on embarkation documents, so his name might crop up.

I'll also drop that gentleman a line and see if he can remember him at all. Thanks for that.

Again, thank you to everyone whose offered advice/helpful info. Very good of you and very much appreciated.

Gareth-Rhys

Thanks Gareth, obviously anything like nominal rolls ect that you can copy at Kew would be of great interest to us, we can place them into The Vault to assist other researchers. The war diary for Iron Clad would be a bonus, we already have Kohima lodged.

Cheers
Al

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ap1

Thanks Gareth, obviously anything like nominal rolls ect that you can copy at Kew would be of great interest to us, we can place them into The Vault to assist other researchers. The war diary for Iron Clad would be a bonus, we already have Kohima lodged.

Cheers
Al

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Yeah I'll gladly get that sorted out for you. I've got a damn good digital camera that I've been saving for just the occasion! I'll be heading down there tomorrow so anything else you gents can think of in the mean time give me a shout. I'm down there at least once or twice a month anyway so if ever any of you lads need something in particular please don't hesitate to give me a shout.

Cheers,

Gareth-Rhys

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ap1

Thanks Gareth, obviously anything like nominal rolls ect that you can copy at Kew would be of great interest to us, we can place them into The Vault to assist other researchers. The war diary for Iron Clad would be a bonus, we already have Kohima lodged.

Cheers
Al

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Hi,
Just to confirm, went up there today and have complete war diary for Operation Ironclad (from initial landing to Operations Stream and Jane), as well as large numbers of nominal rolls for 1943 and 1944. I'm just sorting through them/editing them.

I've submitted the Operation Stream report (action at Majunga, September 1942), and it's waiting approval. God knows if I did the editing right.

Hope it's useful.

Cheers,

Gareth-Rhys