Fusilier James Morris (4197032) 1/RWF 24-05-1940

Hi

I recently visited Ascq Communal Cemetery on the outskirtsof Lille to pay my respects to a Llandudno man of 1/RWF who died on 24^thMay 1940. There are only three WW2 burials at Ascq; James Morris (4197032) ofthe Great Orme, Llandudno, and two men of the KSLI.
Just wondered if anyone could shed any light on why Morris, if he died on the 24^th when the Battalion were at Merville, is buried at Ascq? Is it likely that he died of wounds/illness as 1/RWF were on the outskirts of Lille, in the vicinity of Tournai and Orchies on 20/21 May?
As an aside Ascq Cemetery contains the graves of 86 Frenchmen who were massacred by the Waffen-SS in April 1944 in retaliation for a sabotage on the railway lines in the village. Over 20,000 people attended the funerals and a memorial was later unveiled by Charles de Gaulle. Outside the cemetery is an ‘execution post’ and memorial to the six men of the French Resistance who carried out the attack.
Thank you in advance
Adrian

Hi Adrian,

Due to the situation 1RWF found themselves in, the record keeping was fairly haphazard. This was further exacerbated by the destruction of the battalion command teams at Bn, Coy and Pl level. Additionally many of those commanders who survived, spent 5yrs in captivity. At best I would suggest some of the dates of death given by CWGC are inaccurate. James Morris doesnt appear on any of the "Missing Men" files. That suggests, someone knew for definate he was killed and he'd been identified by either the BEF or the Germans. The date could still be open to conjecture though, if for example he was found by the enemy, sometime later.

On the enlistment database I have, his date of death is given as the 15th May 1940. That could be either because, he died then, it could be a transcription error, or maybe suggests the Bn knew he was dead, but only sometime from that date onwards. This date is also significant as it's the point that the fighting gets messy and the Bn, still dug in, start to lose contact with companies and sub-units at Ottenbourg, they bug out, late that evening, leaving pockets of men overrun by the enemy….not knowing if they are wounded, killed or captured.

Finally see the attached document from 1940. That shows his date of death not recorded. Only in 1943 on a later list, is the date of the 24th May 1940 inserted. http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=5156&stc=1

As always Al, many thanks for your time and help.
Very interesting that you have a date of death ten days earlier, but as you say that could be a typo. I guess many of these queries will forever remain unanswered.

Sadly James Morris is not commemorated on Llandudno War Memorial although he was certainly living on the Great Orme in 1939 with his wife and son; and a few lines appeared in the local paper about his death in June 1940. The 1939 Registry states his occupation as a builder's labourer and that he was born in Manchester, 21/11/1906. I assume then that he was a reservist?
Thank you again I really appreciate your help

No problem, happy to help, an interesting query.

Bit shocked he's not mentioned on the WM. I would hate to think he's not listed on a UK monument anywhere!

Have tried following War Memorials Llandudno Junction, Llandudno Penrhynside and Wrexham without success. Source used was Historypoints.org (memorials)

Thanks Welchboy. I tried the Manchester memorials as listed on mlfhs.org.uk without success. Although by their own admission it is not yet comprehensive.

Morning, Reference the Manchester Memorials, had a try on some but they cover a wide area. Do we know his occupation or school as there are a number of school / employers memorials throughout Manchester. Just a thought.

Still working on his early years WelchBoy. As you say, 'Manchester' covers a wide old area and really need to narrow it down. Nothing is obvious on Ancestry either as the 1911 census might give us a clue as to which part of Manchester the family were living. Thanks for your help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Home Front Museum

Still working on his early years WelchBoy. As you say, 'Manchester' covers a wide old area and really need to narrow it down. Nothing is obvious on Ancestry either as the 1911 census might give us a clue as to which part of Manchester the family were living. Thanks for your help.

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Hi, Home Front. Try these two sites, I have had some success with information that "Ancestry", does not supply. (1) Familysearch.org and (2) Lancashire Births Marriages and Deaths.

Frm the 1939 Register:

He was a builders labourer born 21 Nov 1906.
Living with Florrie Morris(Morris crossed out/Solomon added into the document) I assume she is the wife. She is born 15 Oct 1904.
Also a son. James A.L. (Leonard) Morris. Born 26 Dec 1931.

She later marrys James W Solomon in 1943 in Conwy District. So possibly the document was updated after 1943.
(Source FMP)