Researching Robert Holmes 4191648

Hi,

I am starting to try and find out about my grandfathers service during the war. There are various family rumours about his service and I would like to find out if they are true. My mother seems to think that he was a bit of a black sheep and that at some time he was disciplined for hitting someone with a jeep and that he spent time in hospital after a breakdown. Unfortunately he is no longer with us to answer questions.

What I do know is that he was from Rhyl but that the family might have come from Manchester originally.

He met my grandmother while stationed in Sussex, possibly just outside Horsham where I come from. There were army camps outside the town during the war and their marriage certificate states that when they were married on 28 March 1941, he was a sergeant and staying in Crowborough. Another family rumour is that at some point he drove a tank through the high street ripping up the kerbs.

I have a copy of his service record and having googled the RWF Museum I see that at the moment they can't help with research enquiries. However, I wonder if someone can help me interpret the service record and give me pointers as to where i should go from here. Can I find out what he was disciplined for and if he ever saw active service?

As this is my first post I am not sure how big a file I can upload so here are a couple of crops from his service page .Attachment 2938Attachment 2939

Many Thanks

Dave

A warm welcome Dave. At first glance a 2nd Battalion(Bn) man. They were the overseas's Bn in the 1930's, his record shows him serving for a while in the Sudan in 1938. At the outbreak of WW2, the 2nd Bn were located at Lucknow, India. They sailed for the UK on 6th June 1940. By this stage, their opposite numbers in the 1st Bn had already been decimated at Dunkirk. The ship docked at Liverpool on the 16th July 1940.

On the 24 Mar 1942, as part of the 29th Brigade Group, the 2nd Bn sailed from the Clyde( They had spent some of their UK time at Crowborough). They had been extensively trained in amphibious operations. On April 6, they arrived at Freetown, on the 22nd they landed at Durban, South Africa. At this stage your GF had already been reduced from A/Sgt for misconduct.(possibly at Freetown or on the ship between Freetown and Durban). On the 28th April 1942. They sailed from Durban and headed for the Occupied Island of Madagascar, which was to be one of the first seaborne invasions conducted by Allied Forces. The island was under the control of the Vichy French. The landing took place on the 5th May 1942, without sight of the rest of his service record, we assume he was still with them. His misconduct seems to be occuring smack bang in the middle of the operation....Lt Col Stockwell (The CO) would have been less than pleased :winkicon:

The service record also indicates he may have been transferred to the Gordon Highlanders on the 15th May, but its not 100% clear as the the document also mentions a "Re-transfer". We would need to see what appears elsewhere within the record. I'm unsure if the 9th Bn is a Gordon's Bn or RWF? I also note that whatever his discipline failings, in 1943 he was back up to an acting Sgt, when he "Fell Out" of parade!!!

We would need to see some more of the records to assist further. I have obtained the above info from the book "The Red Dragon" by PK Kemp and John Graves. Available online from 2nd hand book sellers. I will also have a look through a book about the CO "Stockwell, to see if any thing else is mentioned of interest.

One other point of interest, according to the Military History Sheet, between 1944 and 1945 he spent time in Ceylon, this must have been with a non RWF unit(The 2nd Bn were in Burma). Interesting.http://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gif

Looking at the military history sheet in Daves original post. In the "Country" column. Line 6. I think Madagascar has been crossed out and "Africa" inserted. I note on medals list shown below, he appears to have the 1939-43 Star. East Africa is also mentioned in that box, did 2nd Bn men receive this medal for this particular action? Hopefully Richard Ward may have a view on this. I'm aware that this medal was later converted to the 1939-45 Star
Attachment 2940http://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gifhttp://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gif

I do have four medals for Robert - the 1939-1945 Star, the Burma Star, the War Medal and Defence Medal. I also have a discharge document showing he was a WOII on exit and a photo of him with Winterberg 29 Nov 1947 written on the back.

I would be interested to find out if he ever was on the front line and also what he got his knuckles rapped for!
I presume this will be in diaries or other records somewhere.

Just ordered myself a copy of The Red Dragon as well to do some background reading.

Attachment 2941Attachment 2942

Thanks

Dave

OK, the Winterberg Picture. Your Grandfather is stood next to a Kangaroo Armoured Personnel Carrier, he is wearing drivers overalls. (Strange that its Winterberg, as this was the British Army's winter training centre for skiing etc). In 1947, the 1st Bn was based in Germany. In August of that year they were reorganised into a training battalion, for men enlisted under the National Service Act. At this stage they were based at Hubblerath near Dusseldorf. RWF Regimental Records notes

" The most interesting part of the training at company level was in the use of the Kangaroo APC. Although these vehicles had been introduced in 1944, they were unfamiliar to most officers and men of the division"

As a WO2 its entirely possible your relative was responsible for delivering the training on this vehicle. My only concern is I can't find him on any nominal roles for the 1st Bn during this period. But he may have slipped the net.