Violence in Sport

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Serious question for our "boys in blue" for whom I have the utmost respect.
You will obviously have seen and read about the face raking incident carried out by Adebayor on Van Persie over the weekend. My question is, why is an obvious assault (albeit on a sports field) not viewed as a criminal offence as it would be on the streets and why criminal proceedings do not follow?
I'm sure somebody will mention the violence occuring more and more on the rugby field - same question. At the moment, the statements "it is a mans game or its a contact sport and feelings often run high in the competitive arena" seems to excuse violent behaviour that is not only unacceptable elsewhere in society but downright illegal and punishable by law.

[Heap90]

Surely prosecuting all and sundry would negate the competetive edge that most contact sports have? Also taking it to an extreme, should boxers that cause the death of an opponent be charged with murder? I agree that there is far too much "dirty play" creeping into football and rugby but taking them to court isn't the answer. Maybe a 2 or 3 yr ban would cut out a lot of it as a sportsmans playing career is short.:skeptical:

[ivor43]

a very good question.as an ex p.c.i wonder myself sometimes, but i suspect that the problem, if the old memory still works,is the wording of the offence. it used to be assault with intent to cause a.b.h. or g.b.h. or there was assault occasioning a.b.h. or common assault.as i said these have probably changed over the years but i think the the problem may be proving intent.if a stand up fight occurs then no problem, if you throw a punch then you intend to cause someone bodily harm. but in other instances it may not be so easy to decide if it was deliberate or accidental.
however i believe that this is not acceptable conduct and if a few harsh punishments were handed out both to players and clubs then we might see some changes.

[Heap90]

Oh, i almost forgot, Cantona was charged and served a paltry community service order! There must be others in Pro sport as there have been loads of Court cases in normal amateur games too.

[Scouse75]

In law, each offence has what is know as a defence. i.e, If he actually bought a pack of fags, and sid Burns left them on the table in the pub, and I took one. I would have the defence that I had the presumed permission of the owner, had Sid have known the circumstances, of which one of his fags was taken. (There are others)

In regards to an assault, the defences would be; self-defence(including a pre meditated attack-IF JUSTIFIED!). An assault through sport. i.e, a boxer breaking someones nose. This would not be assault, as the boxer had the implied permission of the opponent. Also a tackle in football or rugby, where the opponent is injured would not be seen as an assault.

It gets confusing when the assault occurs, when an action is not deemed to be part of the sport. For example, Duncan ferguson, when playing for Glasgow rangers, headbutted an opponent, and he received a custodial sentence. This was correct in the eyes of the law, because the headbutt was not 'accidental' or 'reckless', or due to a tackle, etc. If he was going for a header, he would have adefence. But he wasnt, thus, it was assault. Remember, only the victim can make the official complaint for it to be investigated by the police.

Although, Van Persie would probably not make an official complaint,Adebayor, would probably have a defence, because he would use the excuse that he was going for the ball. (although, it looked rather dodgy, to say the least!!).

Hope this hasnt confused you any more!!! Incidentally the other defence to an assault is that it occurred during bondage/S+M sex!! (this is true!!). I'll leave you with that thought!!!!

[Paul Hinge]

An interesting question!
Those of you in the police have to certainly find a chink in the armour of the perpetrator of a violent attack. But it seems to us laymen that if you consent to play or take part in a sport where physical contact can be part of the sport as long as you can defend your action you will not fall foul of the law. I remember the Ferguson and Cantona case well and that shows there is a recourse to justice but many other cases even one quite recently in rugby where a player went into a ruck head first saw no sanction from the rugby authorities but his club dropped him.
A difficult situation. Morally they are wrong but I suppose it revolves around if you can prove intent in the end!
Am I barking up the right tree on this Paul?

Hingey

[dutchman]

Van persie plays for arsenal who cares (ducking down)

[keithwill38]

The referee was behind him when he made the tackle,looking at them because he obviously thought Van percy (pun)made the foul tackle but decided that it was ok and thought the Ademoaner tackle was ok,but with the tv replays making it look far worse than it was he will get a ban,and deservadly so as he plays for Man City:biglaugh:

[jase hill]

Dont think we have the right to question top level sportsmen regardless of their actions, right or wrong we are not in their shoes and dont have their pressures to get the right result.

[Lofty-25]

Jase

I think those who buy season ticket, memorabilia and even shares (for those clubs who have not be bought buy millionaires) have the right to "question top level sportsmen, regardless of their actions", it is their money at the end of the day that pay their wages, and because of his 20 seconds of madness could cost his side a higher finishing position at the end of the season, costing the club millions (but it is only Man City, so no loss there) With so much money now for finishing higher in the league and the revenue for a possible champions league spot next season and if Adebayor gets a 6 game or 6 month ban and they lose out on a top 4 spot because of that who would "question his actions", i for one if i supported that team (god forbid i don't) would for certain

Pressure, what pressure, with 40k a week and upward going into his bank whether he plays or sits on the bench, i am sure he would deal with it

Get them out in Iraq or Afghanistan then i am sure they would know what pressure is

[keithwill38]

Totally agree lofty

[Scouse75]

Jase!! Stop it! I know you are just after a reaction!! lol...............Pressure? Oh yeah, how will they manage to pay their mortgage and secure their pension fund!! Believe me, having to spend on my season ticket and travelling everywhere, Liverpool players who under perform are well aware of where this callsign is sitting!!!!

[Heap90]

I lost a finger when playing for the Btn 2nds against some useless Yank side lol. I never claimed, maybe i should have? To be fair i was taunting him that he wouldn't stamp on my hand as i fed the ball in the scrum, needless to say he did get me lol.Most so called "Fights" in Rugby are really just Handbags at 20 paces - Just shows the guys are giving it their all.....Unlike Cardiff Blues at the moment :mad:

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Thanks Scouse for your proffesional and interesting comments. I can see now the complications in the Law.
It is also interesting to see (albeit not suprisingly) that some people view proffesional sportsmen to be above the Law purely because of their status and the "pressure" they are under to deliver. God only knows what they would be capable of in the real world, ie working for a living 8 hrs a day, 40+ hours a week , 48 weeks a year and struggling to pay their mortgage.
38 Keep up! Nobody mentioned the ref or his decisions regarding the matter. Make up your own thread if you want to discuss refereeing decisions. LOL