William Roberts born 1776 Denbigh

[gaffa]

Hi,
> I am searching my G/G/G/Grandfather and trying to find out any information on him and also his wife Esther.

Full Name:- William Roberts

Date of Birth:- 1776

Place of Birth:- from Henllan Street - Denbigh area.

Army Number:- Not Known

Known Information and story hand downs

He was married to Esther [Hester /Ellen surname Unknown]
The first was that he was in the Napoleonic War? and that he was wounded and Esther went to Dover and brought him back home, due to an army pension she was able to make the journey back. [Story]
Also that they had 22 Children [Story, as we have only found 7 so far]
1841 Census they lived in Henllan Street and his occupation was that of a Labourer.
He was registered as a Soldier on his son Wilkes, marriage in 1847.
I believe he was in the 23rd Foot Royal Welch Fusiliers.
Died between 1847 - early 1851.
1851 Census Hester is a Widow and her occupation is Midwife.
Regards
Gaffa

[ap1]

Hi Gaffa, welcome to the Forum.

My first question would be: Did he fight at Waterloo 1815?

There is a book that lists all 23rd Of Foot participants at Waterloo. One of us will probably be able to check that fairly quickly. It may yield some more personal information, if he's listed.

The pension story is your golden thread. If he was in receipt of a pension there will be a record of it at The National Archive Kew. A potentially fascinating search. If you've never visited the Archive read my beginners guide:

http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=67

I suggest you rapidly become an expert on all things relating to army pensions, and the way it is stored and indexed at the archive. Take a look at the guide below:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationa larchives.gov.uk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2006.h tm&lBack=-1

Looking at the 1841 census entry, He is listed as 65, Esther is 60. The next eldest in the house is only 20, so its likely there are older siblings. Also on the entry is the youngest kids aged 10 and 4. I'm assuming these are his grandchildren, which is another good indication there are older sons and daughters living elsewhere or deceased after having children.

[ap1]

Attached is the entries for a few Roberts from the Waterloo Roll's. Nothing obvious, although a Roberts or two from Denbighshire. It is of course possible that he was wounded before the battle.

The entries highlight another area. The bit about Esther travelling to Dover to recover him is given a little more credibility. Look at all the attestation locations(where they took the shilling), most of them are on the Kent Coast.

[gaffa]

Hi Gaffa, welcome to the Forum.

My first question would be: Did he fight at Waterloo 1815?

There is a book that lists all 23rd Of Foot participants at Waterloo. One of us will probably be able to check that fairly quickly. It may yield some more personal information, if he's listed.

The pension story is your golden thread. If he was in receipt of a pension there will be a record of it at The National Archive Kew. A potentially fascinating search. If you've never visited the Archive read my beginners guide:

http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=67

I suggest you rapidly become an expert on all things relating to army pensions, and the way it is stored and indexed at the archive. Take a look at the guide below:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationa larchives.gov.uk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2006.h tm&lBack=-1

Looking at the 1841 census entry, He is listed as 65, Esther is 60. The next eldest in the house is only 20, so its likely there are older siblings. Also on the entry is the youngest kids aged 10 and 4. I'm assuming these are his grandchildren, which is another good indication there are older sons and daughters living elsewhere or deceased after having children.

That is the family. However, there is a story that goes with this.
He was at and fought at Waterloo. So did his friend Thomas Williams whose wife was Esther, It was Thomas who was injured and died at or near near Waterloo. Esther Williams went to collect him and received a pension, [She walked from Dover to Denbigh] she met up with William Roberts [not sure where and if he walked her home] and later married him about 1815 - 1818. Would Like to have both results from the book please if its not too much trouble.
Regards
Gaffa

[ap1]

I'm not sure he was at Waterloo. However a search of the available online records for the Penninsula Medal Roll 1793-1814 produces a William Roberts serving with the 23rd Of Foot(RWF). No personal details.

Not much detail, other than he is entitled to two medal clasps

Firstly - TAL - Which I think refers to The Battle of Talavera - July 1809

Second - Vitt - Which possibly refers to The Battle of Vitoria June - 1813

[gaffa]

Attached is the entries for a few Roberts from the Waterloo Roll's. Nothing obvious, although a Roberts or two from Denbighshire. It is of course possible that he was wounded before the battle.

The entries highlight another area. The bit about Esther travelling to Dover to recover him is given a little more credibility. Look at all the attestation locations(where they took the shilling), most of them are on the Kent Coast.
Any chance you can look up 'Thomas Williams' for me please.

[ap1]

Its on my list of "Things to do"!!

[ap1]

There's 4 Thomas Williams listed on the Waterloo Roll. 1 guy is from Cornwall and is discharged in 1821. The other 3 are listed below:

Don't discount the liverpool Williams, he was killed, which fits. Obviously the guy from Ruthin is a poss, although if his wife received a pension, I would expect it to be noted. Having said that, the fact that his discharge date is unlisted could indicate he arrived back injured and then died as a result of those injuries away from a military base. Thus he is lost to the military recordkeepers for ever? Just a theory.

[gaffa]

The original message gave that he was still a soldier at his sons marriage in 1847 and he died before the 1851 Census. Would this be searchable for a further pension.
Regards
Gaffa

There's 4 Thomas Williams listed on the Waterloo Roll. 1 guy is from Cornwall and is discharged in 1821. The other 3 are listed below:

Don't discount the liverpool Williams, he was killed, which fits. Obviously the guy from Ruthin is a poss, although if his wife received a pension, I would expect it to be noted. Having said that, the fact that his discharge date is unlisted could indicate he arrived back injured and then died as a result of those injuries away from a military base. Thus he is lost to the military recordkeepers for ever? Just a theory.

[Aled Roberts]

There is one William Roberts on the MGS roll. Clasps for Salamanca & Vittoria. Also served at Waterloo. As identified by Al above.

One Thomas Williams. 6 clasps. Corruna, Vittoria, Pyrenees, Nievlle, Orthes & Toulouse. Born Caron, Cards; labourer. Attested 25th Aug 1807 aged 21. Discharged 4th Dec 1814 to out pension of 9d per diem.

[Aled Roberts]

Forgot to mention ... found this interesting in respect of the walking home story ... John Williams wounded in forearm when resisting a French Cavalry sabre cut. Taken prisoner at Corruna. On repatriation walked to his home in Ruthin, North Wales. Entitled to MGS with clasp for Corruna.

Don't forget though - you had to be alive to claim this medal - so there would have been more soldiers entitled to the MGS.

Applications were invited from the surviving eligible veterans for the medal in 1847. This was 34 years after the last battle and 47 years after the first that the medal commemorates, and the next of kin of the dead (unless the veteran had lodged a a claim prior to his death) were not eligible to claim.

[ap1]

The original message gave that he was still a soldier at his sons marriage in 1847 and he died before the 1851 Census. Would this be searchable for a further pension.
Regards
Gaffa


You said that Thomas Williams Died near or at Waterloo, which is why I have highlighted those Williams who died.

If your asking about William Roberts, I think we have already answered your question. There will a reference to any pension at the National Archive. Reread the earlier post, and visit the links:


If he was in receipt of a pension there will be a record of it at The National Archive Kew. A potentially fascinating search. If you've never visited the Archive read my beginners guide:

http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=67

I suggest you rapidly become an expert on all things relating to army pensions, and the way it is stored and indexed at the archive. Take a look at the guide below:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationa larchives.gov.uk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2006.h tm&lBack=-1

[gaffa]

You said that Thomas Williams Died near or at Waterloo, which is why I have highlighted those Williams who died.

If your asking about William Roberts, I think we have already answered your question. There will a reference to any pension at the National Archive. Reread the earlier post, and visit the links:
Its a 200 Year old story I am trying to piece together, there may well be errors within it, thats what I am attempting to do. With your help and others I may be able to do that