Pte Reginald Sherriff 1 RWF 4206831.WW2

[flumpit2]

Hi everyone,we've recently obtained my grandads service record and we are trying to draw on a map the route he took through India & Burma but it just seems to say field on his records which is of no help at all.
He joined up 18/10/40 with the 70th RWF.then transfered to south staffs reg,then the 431 company CMP before transfereing to the 1 RWF.
He landed in Deolali 21/09/43,Bombay 21/9/43 then it goes to wounded in action in Burma 3/12/43 (with 1RWF).After that it just lists field for location until 11/4/44 when he entered concessional area at assam.
He was there until July 1946.
Does anyone know where the 1 RWF fought in India/Burma or how i can find out where he went?
He told us he fought with the chindits & Ghurkhas & i have a pic of him & his Regiment with some ghurkas & chindits in either India or Burma.
Any help would be greatly received.
Thanks for reading.
Shaz

P.S.i can post his service/casualty record & the pics i have if anyone is interested.

[ap1]

Hi Shaz, and a warm welcome to the forum.

We would certainly be interested in displaying his casualty and service records. We have an area called The Vault that we use to keep this type of information. You can upload it yourself, it will then be authorised by one of the mods. If you have any probs PM myself, Richard or Lars and we will happily assist.

In ref to his service, once you have posted his service record we should be able to help you, plot a route etc. I will start looking in the detail you have provided.

Incidently, you can attach a pic of your grandad to your initial post.

[ap1]

Shaz,

Re-reading your post, you mention that he entered the Assam Concessional Area in April 44. I think this may refer to the tribal area of Nagaland, which was part of Assam. If i'm correct, it would a be a fair guess that your Grandfather fought at the Battle of Kohima, which commenced in late April 44.

The 1st Bn were part of 6 Brigade of the 2nd Div, and this battle was bitter and bloody. It was fought on 3 small pieces of highground called Garrison Hill, Kukris Piquet FSD and a nearby location which prior to the fighting had been the District Commisioners(DC's) Bungalow. The very fact that The Tennis Court at the DC's bungalow became a well know place of intense fighting, gives an indication of how close the Japanese and British were living and fighting.

As a taster you may be interested in reading an account given to the BBC by an old 1RWF Comrade, who fought at Kohima

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/ww2/pages/w_h_jones2.shtml

[flumpit2]

Thanks so much for the info so far.Reading Harold Jones account of the Battle of Kohima bought home abit what my grandad must of gone through.
On a different note,which part of the vault should i post his service record in and can i attatch multiple items to the post as they are all scanned on my pc as jpeg images,so theres 10 items to attach.

[ap1]

Thanks to Shaz who has sent me a series of documents relating to Reginald Sherriff. One is of immediate interest. Its a picture of the temporary memorial to the Royal Welch Dead at Kohima. It was errected on Kukris Piquet by the Pioneer Platoon of the 1st Bn on the 8th Nov 1944. This picture is also featured in the book The Red Dragon published in 1960. Shaz has a picture of her grandfather stood beside the memorial.

[flumpit2]

Thanks for the info about the temporary memorial,i had no idea what it was for.Your deffinatly a wealth of information!!
Cant wait to tell my mum what it is tomorrow.
Shaz

[ap1]

Looking at his Service/Casualty record, its clear it wasn't filled out in a logical sequence. It would have been updated as and when it was feasable. I don't think he was wounded in Dec 1943. The Red Dragon has the battalion undergoing training at that period, and not actually undertaking active service

Some other the other members may have a view. But I think the date in the red box actually relates to the Oct 43 entry above, which has been crossed out.

The same author has then stated in the yellow entry below that your Grandad was wounded in action by gunshot wounds(GSW) to the chest and legs in Burma. Admitted to 5 Field Ambulance to X(N). The date of the wounds being the 14th April 1944.

The next entry below, then shows him being discharged from Hospital and transferred to his unit on the 17th May 1944, just over a month later.

Anyone else have a view?

[flumpit2]

Thanks for the info so far Al,we find it really hard to read alot of the writing on his service/casuality record.
Its interesting that theyv got him down as being wounded when they were undergoing training & not active service-strange!
We do have more records but they are printed on A3 paper & my scanner only takes A4.
I will get them off my mum over the xmas period & try to scan them on to my pc as best as i can & get them uploaded.
I will also get that photo off my mum with my grandad standing next to the temporary memorial to the Royal Welch Dead at Kohima.I find it really sad that my grandad may of fought with some of those brave fellows that lost their lifes!!!
Shaz

[ap1]

Thanks for the info so far Al,we find it really hard to read alot of the writing on his service/casuality record.
Its interesting that theyv got him down as being wounded when they were undergoing training & not active service-strange!Shaz

I think its just the way it reads. I think he was wounded on the 14th April 44, which was the early part of the Kohima battle. I will scan a couple of pages from Red Dragon, it paints a better picture of the conditions.

Also the CMP stands for Corp of Royal Military Police(The forerunner of the RMP). He was a member of 431 Company CMP (VP) and based at Belfast. His record indicates that he went Absent Without Leave, he was also courtmartialed and received a sentence of 84 days, possibly for this offence. He then ends up back with the RWF in India. He had an interesting military service. :-)

CMP & RMP shoulder badges At the beginning of the Second World War, the CMP had several branches: Special Investigation Branch (SIB); Red Caps, who were responsible for general policing; Blue Caps (Vulnerable Points), responsible for security of static locations and establishments; White Caps (Traffic Control); and Field Security Wing (Green Caps), which was separated from the CMP in 1940 to form the Intelligence Corps, and who wore the CMP cap badge, but without the scroll

[flumpit2]

Hi,that would be great if you could scan a couple of pages from Red Dragon.
As for my grandads military service,he deffinatly was a free spirit & didnt like being told what to do much,lol.
Shaz

[flumpit2]

Hiya,my mum cant find the pic of my grandad by the memorial but heres a pic of the whole thing that she found out.

Has anyone got any idea what towns & citys the 1RWF went through between 14/08/43 to 14/07/46 as im getting nowhere fast trying to plot his route on a map.
Many thanks for any help and i hope you all had a good christmas & new year!!
Shaz

[ap1]

Hi Shaz, here are some locations for you to plot on a map. They cover the Battle of Kohima, and the subsequent move south to Imphal. It finishes with the Bn at the end of 1944, heading towards Mandalay on foot, in the steamy jungles of Burma, pursuing the retreating Japanese.

12/4/44 Bn arrives at Dimapur

13th Start Departing Dimapur to Graspani. On the 14th

15th Zubza/Some fighting, a Platoon Comd was killed, I did wonder if your Grandfather was injured here.

17th Reached Jotsoma. Some heavy fighting, indeed 2 sections of A Company 1RWF were overun by the Japanese, the survivors were taken prisoner. An immediate counter attack was launched by Lt Callaghan and A Coy CSM. Using a covered approach they counter attacked, and completely wiped the enemy out, and rescued their own men!!! During the counter attack they killed 17 of the enemy.

29th Ferried by Bren Carriers to the outskirts of Kohima. This was the start of their part in the Kohima Battle, they were to remain in action until the battles end on the 12th May, a few days later they moved to Forest Gate Rest Camp at Dimapur, for a short break.

28th May, deployed to a jungle box, close to Aradura, which is South of Kohima. The Japanese still held this area, and heavy fighting ensued. They took a bit of a kicking during this period, its possible that the CO was replaced as the Japanese had managed to catch the Bn off guard. Aradura was finally taken on the 6th June.

They now started advancing south along the main road to Imphal, engaging enemy on route.

18th June Advancing on Mao Songsang Sands.

24th June The Bn launches an attack on Thumion Khulen, killing a number of the enemy, similar skirmishes happen over the next few days.

By the 1st July the Division was in full control of Imphal, and they were visited by Mountbatten.

6th July The Bn attacks the village of Shorbung, this pretty much finished the Imphal Campaign. The Bn then went into tents near the village of Maram, and lived a slightly more sedate life than the previous 3 months. They were able to play sport, enjoy normal Bn life and leave was granted.

During this period on the 8th Nov, members of the Bn returned to Kohima and unveiled and dedicated the Kohima memorial shown on your photograph.

20th Nov, on the move, reaching Hazagyo in the Kibaw Valley on the 22nd Nov.

15th Dec, the Bn crosses the River Chindwin moving south east through the jungle pursuing the Japanese towards the plains of Burma. This was a new phase of their warfighting, one of the aims being the capture of Mandalay.

[flumpit2]

Thanks for the great reply al,its really,really helpful!!!We've now got something to plot on a map-yayyy!!!Cant wait to ring my mum tomorrow & tell her.
Thanks again.
Shaz :)

[jungle1810]

Hello Al,
What an interesting thread. I believe both Cliff Slater,Sjt John MacDonald who won am M.M. at Donbaik served in Burma. and by coincidence Cliff who was my C.Q.M. S. and Mac M.M was my C.S.M. in "B" company in the first when we were in Jamaica.I also believe Don Matthews served in Burma as well?? David Graves ( the son of Robert Graves ) was kia in Burma, whilst attacking Japanese machine gun posts, and Reuben Jones was wounded when he went back for more 36 grenades.Robert Graves was naturally devastated over the loss of his son who was recommended for a gong in this action.
Regards Don

[ap1]

Your absolutely right Don, it a fascinating story. I was chatting with Don Matthews last year at the LOF, having known him for about 10 yrs, I was gobsmacked when he told me he had joined the 2nd Bn in 1944, and fought along Railway Corridor, very humbling.

What bowled me over about this piece of research, was the small section about A Company 1RWF, my old company. Having lost 2 sections to the Japs, and all the survivors carted off by the enemy, the Pl Comd and the CSM grab the reserve section, counter attack, killing 17 enemy and release their own guys from capture!!!! How amazing is that. Now thats the sort of story, I should have been told as a young fusilier in Alphas. Equally I should have been re-telling it when I was a senior rank in the same company. Thats regimental history brought into sharp focus. Every young Royal Welsh squaddie could identify with that.

I only wish many of these guys were still alive, I don't think we as a nation paid them anywhere near enough respect they deserved. When i was a kid, my old fella had a pub in Newtown called the Wheatsheaf. Most of our customers were ex RWF Burma Star Vets, they were great guys and gentlemen every one of them. Im looking forward to plotting Reg Sherriff's march to Mandalay:smile:

[flumpit2]

It is amazing about A company and how the reserves counter attacked,killing 17 Japs and released their own men from capture!!Those guys were real heros & it brings a lump to my throat when i hear things like that.I cant even begin to imagine what all those brave fellas went through.

My mum said thanks for the info Al,she sat there taking notes while i read out what you had written,thanks again for that!!!

Iv scanned the other part that come with his service record onto my pc,would it be ok to send it to you to see if theres anything of use there?

Also my Grandad always use to say that his mate Pickford saved his life and he always use to recite the name Robert Edward Bernard James Sigh (i think thats right),do either names mean anything to anyone?

Am posting a pic of my grandad & battalion? incase anyone recognises anyone.
Thanks once again for all your help so far!
Shaz :smile:

[ap1]

Yes, send the service record to me Shaz.

Regarding the picture, It's not the RWF. I think it may be part of the raiding sqn he was later part of.

[flumpit2]

i did notice there was rather alot of mixed people in the pic,lol.
I didnt realise my grandad was part of a raiding sqn.I wish everything was typed out on his service record instead of handwritten,then id be able to understand it all instead of just the odd word.I dont know how anyone can understand any of it,lol!!!

Will send stuff in mo.
:)

[ap1]

The attached document is quite interesting. It confirms he was Wounded In Action on the 14th Apr 1944, and although it is difficult to read, he appears to have been injured again on the 30th May 44. This second injury may have occured when the Bn was trying to take Aradura...which was pretty messy.

Also looking at his medal entitlement, it looks like he may have also recieved a UN medal? Did he serve in Korea?

[flumpit2]

korea,not to the best of my knowledge,no.Think iv got pics of his medals on my phone somewhere,will post em when i get back from fetching kids from school.
:)

[flumpit2]

he got the burma star,1939-1945 star,defence medal & this one...

[ap1]

he got the burma star,1939-1945 star,defence medal & this one...

Medal Experts..1 Pace step foooorwaaaaard....MARCH!!!! :winker: please

[flumpit2]

:biglaugh:
Heres the back of the medal.

[Aled Roberts]

Stepping forward Sir. :)

The one in the picture is the 'War Medal' for WWII.

The War Medal was awarded to all fulltime personnel of the armed forces wherever they were serving, provided they had served for at least 28 days between 3 September 1939 and 2 September 1945.

[Aled Roberts]

And to fill in the gaps,

The Defence Medal was awarded for non-operational service. This type of service in the UK included those service personnel working in headquarters, on training bases and airfields and members of the Home Guard. The Medal was also awarded for non-operational service overseas, for example in India or South Africa.

The 1939–45 Star was awarded for any period of operational service overseas between 3 Sep 1939 and 8 May 1945 (2 Sep 1945 in the Far East). The criteria are 180 days’ service between these dates, although some special criteria apply when just 1 days’ service is required, such as being killed....

[ap1]

Cheers Richard,

Am I missing something, on his medal sheet it looks like 4 separate medals, is that right.

[flumpit2]

Yep,4 medals...burma star,1939-1945 star,defence medal & war medal (thanks Richard).
:)

[flumpit2]

I emailed the RWF museum at Caernarfon Castle yesterday on behalf of my mum to enquire how much it would cost for a copy of the war diaries to be sent.
I know they charge £15 for first hour then £5 for every 15mins after that.If its too dear i dont think she will bother though but would be great if she did then i could post them on here!!
Shes also managed to source The Red Dragon book so shes also waiting for that to arrive.I might be able to get abit further on the map plotting once iv sat & read it and once iv found a map with all the places on,lol!
:biglaugh:

[ap1]

Well done Shaz, my job is done! haha

If you go onto the Burma Star website they have battle maps from Burma etc. They also have 1940's mapping for the Kohima area, and this shows many of the villages South of Kohima that Reginald would have fought and passed through on route to Imphal.

Red Dragon is excellent, and paints a vivid picture of their experiences. I won't quote anymore from that book, as you will discover much yourselves.

I had another look through Reginalds war records,(a portion attached). It appears in 1945 he was posted to Headquarters 45 Beach group. Its possible that is where the picture was taken, equally it could have been at a convelesence unit, although there are no nurses shown. The picture is a mixed group of individuals from different units with a couple of officers, so perhaps a Headquarters!

The final entry on his record shows the detail "LIAP", I beleive this refers to Leave granted to him whilst in India.

He may have also spent sometime in Singapore Military Hospital in 1945, but that is partially guess work, and again that may be the picture location.

[flumpit2]

Iv been on the burma star website before and got the main map of india/burma.Im going to have a look in a mo at the other maps (didnt realise there was more,thanx for the tip off Al).
Id hoped the RWF museum would of replied by now :( .Bet theyd want a fair bit for copies of the war diaries as would take quite a while to copy them all,so not sure if mum will get them.Really hope she does tho!!!
My brother found The Red Dragon on Amazon,costs £35 inc postage so not as dear as i expected (mind you,they had 1 for £52 which was in better condition).Cant wait to get my grubby paws on it,lol.
Will let you know when i get a reply from the museum (hopefully soon),and thanks for all your help so far!!!
:)

[flumpit2]

Still no reply from the RWF museum at Caernarfon Castle.Cant see why its taking them so long to reply,or maybe its just me being impatient,lol.I might email them again later.
My dads started to read The Red Dragon,so gona be a while until i can get my grubby mitts on it :( .
On a brighter note i downloaded some of those maps off the Burma Star website & have found Jotsoma,Kohima & Aradura with a possible route printed on it (there only parts of maps).Could really do with a map with all the villages tho.
Shaz :)

[ap1]

I would phone the museum if you don't get a response on email. Ask to speak to the Curator Mr Brian Owen.

It beats me...Here we have someone who would like to pay the museum to carry out a smallish task. Good job its not a proper business!!

[flumpit2]

Maybe the email got lost in the world wide web :biglaugh:.

[Bricoates]

Shaz,
I live in Caernarfon, Anything I can do to help give me a call.

Brian.

[flumpit2]

Thanks for that Brian!!!
Have emailed them again (didnt have time to ring as had kids off school ill).Hopefully they will reply to this one,lol.
:)

[flumpit2]

I had a reply from the RWF Museum to my email earlier.The curator Brian put
"
Dear Sharon

Thank you for your message. I’m sorry not to have replied sooner.

I was pleased to hear you have your Grandfather’s service record and that you would like to plot his movements with the 1st Battalion.

It would be a very large job to photocopy the relevant sections of the War Diary. I estimate it would probably take two days’ work to do it, and unfortunately I don’t have the staff resources to do it. Like the Service Record a lot of it is handwritten and quite difficult to decipher. However you are very welcome to come in and undertake the copying yourself, in which case we would just charge you for the paper plus a nominal charge for use of the copier.

Have you seen “The Red Dragon”, our 1939-45 history? This was written in 1960 and was based on the battalion War Diaries. It offers a much better way of obtaining what you want. You should be able to obtain a copy via your local library, or I can photocopy the relevant pages for you. Then, if you find you do want some sections of the War Diary to provide more detail on specific dates, the task will be more manageable.

I hope you will find this an acceptable alternative and I look forward to being able to assist you.

Regards

Brian Owen
Curator "

So obviously its not as easy & quick a task as i thought it would be.
Looks like iv just got to wait until my mum & dad have finished reading The Red Dragon before i can crack on with the map plotting.
Atleast i can plot the battle of Kohima/Imphal thanks to the info from ap1 gave me.
Im suprised that if i went to the Museum myself they would only charge for use of paper & photo copier.We recently went to the Royal Warwickshire Museum & they charged us £10 for a couple of pages of their war diary to be copied!
:)

[Aled Roberts]

I have a lot of sympathy for the museum, as with most things these days lots of requests and work coming in - but few resources to keep on top of things.

The fact that Brian has extended the offer of some DIY research at costs just shows to me that they do care about what they do and do the best they can. I have had cause to contact other Regimental Museums in the past .... and been thoroughly disappointed of having no options.

I would concur that you need to fight for that copy of "TRD" from your folks :winker:

Richard

[ap1]

The fact that Brian has extended the offer of some DIY research at costs just shows to me that they do care about what they do and do the best they can. I have had cause to contact other Regimental Museums in the past .... and been thoroughly disappointed of having no options.

Richard

I think your comments are very fair Richard, clearly Brian is trying to make a difference. I think my main frustrations are that they dont seemed to have grasped the WWW web by the scruff, and started using it to their advantage. I've been involved in our site since early 1999 and 10 yrs on, I would say they have not moved forward at all. The money they would spend getting a decent site up and running would be quickly recouped through on-line sales.

Anyway Shaz, back on thread. I would suggest an early morning raid at your mother address!!!!!! You need Red Dragon :spinny:

[flumpit2]

I wasn't knocking Brians reply as i can totaly understand that he hasnt got the staff resources to do two days of photo copying and the offer of the DIY photo copying for so cheap was great!!!!

Would deffinatly be good if they put the war diaries etc on the website so that they could be paid for and down loaded off the site then it would free up alot more of their valuable time to do the research etc for people.
Do you think my mum & dad would notice if i sneaked into their house tomorrow while there at work & pinched The Red Dragon :biglaugh:
Am itching to get my grubby paws on it!!!

[flumpit2]

Hi all,havent been on for a while.Still havent got my grubby paws on my mums Red Dragon book yet so have got no further with my grandads route through India & Burma.Am getting pretty fed up waiting now,gona have to raid ther house soon,lol.

[flumpit2]

Well i still havent read The Red Dragon yet :( .
On a brighter note i have been in touch for the past few weeks with Bob Cook who is the curator of the Kohima Museum at Imphal Barracks,York.The museum is specificaly for the battle of Kohima & Imphal.
What a lovely and very helpful man!!!
He told me some info about the battle etc and then photocopied the 1 RWF war diary for this battle plus a map with all the places on and posted it to me (received it today).All for the cost of the postage (i will ofcourse be sending a donation along with the postage).I got his name & email addy off the burma star ass site.
So if anyone needs any info to do with this battle then this is definatly the man to speak to.
Gona sit and start reading them later when the kids are in bed.Yayyyy,i will finaly be able to start plotting the map soon. :)

[ap1]

Hey Shaz, any chance of a copy of the war diary stuff please. It would be a useful addition to our site and allow all of our members to read about 1RWF's actions in the Kohima battle. Im sure we could find a location for it.

Best Wishes
Al

[flumpit2]

Hey Al,long time no chat!
My dads skanked the war diary at the mo (typical!) but i should hopefully be getting them back Friday at the latest.
Was gona ask when i got them back if i could email you a copy so they could be put in the vault or somewhere as future reference for anyone else thats interested.
I skimmed through them briefly and they really made me realise what such a hard time they had out there.Cant wait to read it all properly but got a feeling it will bring a tear to my eye.
Will let you know when i get them back.
Shaz :)

[flumpit2]

Al,have sent the first half of war diarys to you.Just attaching 2nd lot to email now then will send it.

Ive only read part of the diaries so far but they have really made me realise what those brave fellows (my grandad included) went through.Life was sooo hard for them,i can now understand why people say that it was one of the worst battles in WW2!!
When Al puts the diaries on the forum they are def worth a read even if you dont know anyone that was in the battle of Kohima.

Iv got a question,does anyone know how i can find out what coy my grandad was in?The diaries mention different coys and i couldnt see anything on my grandads service record.
Shaz :)

[jungle1810]

Hello All,
I mentioned the interest in the Burma campaign to Windsor- Robinson on our last meeting. He states it is difficult after so many years to place men who served in Burma by their names alone. he is firmly of the opinion that as much detail as possible is required.Such as name and last three and a nickname if possible plus as much detail of platoons and company info.Sorry but I did try as did Windsor.
Regards Don aka RBD

[flumpit2]

Hi Don,thanks for taking the time to mention it to Windsor- Robinson,its much apprechiated.
I only wish i would of listened better when my Grandad use to tell us stories of the war (which were few & far between).But being a girl i was more interested in playing with my Sindy dolls.lol.
The war diaries for the battle of Kohima are going to be a big help in understanding where he went and what he went through.
Bob Cook the curator of the Kohima Museum in York (who sent me the war diaries)has informed me that there is an annual rememberance service at York Minister for survivors of the Kohima Battle and their families,so i might go & see if anyone remembers my Grandad.
:)

[ap1]

Thanks for the Kohima Diaries Shaz, they will be a great asset. Although I havn't looked at them yet, they are quite large in file size. So Bob will make the decision as to the best way of displaying them.

I was based up at York In the early 90's, and attended the service at the Minster with many of the old veterans, and what a tale they could tell. Its unlikely that any RWF guys will attend, as they are very few in number, but I might be wrong. There are or was a couple of ex RWF living in the York area. One guy an officer called Demetriadi(later a Colonel) lived in York, and passed away a couple of years ago. His family may well still be living in the vicinity. He was heavily involved in the Burma Star Association, indeed his account of either Donbaik or Kohima was on the Burma Star website a few years ago.

Attend the service, you just never know what will transpire. :yes:

[flumpit2]

I sat and read through the start of the diaries earlier and had to stop as they made me feel so sad & depressed.Reading them has really started to bring home what they all went through.
Hope Bob finds somewhere to put them so that others can read them because there really interesting and a great piece of history even if you didnt know anyone who was in that battle.

Thanks for the info about the memorial service,i think that if i dont go then my parents might.I know the chance of meeting an ex RWF is pretty slim as there arn't many veterans left at all now adays.Which is such a shame!

On a different note can anyone tell me the name of the officer that this says and also what the writing outlined in red says as im trying to find out what coy my grandad was in and wondered if this had any relevance as it mentions A.Plus if we could read the officers name it might help us abit.