Shot at Dawn.

[Smokeyjoe]

I visited the National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas Staffordshire today and was very impressed with the various memorials and the general layout, it is certainly worth a visit

Having completed the visit I was left with two questions which someone may be able to answer,

1. Why is there no memorial to any of the Regiments such as the RWF SWB and the Welch, it would be nice to see a combind one at some point being erected at the Aborteum as others have done.

2. Does anyone have any details of the following Royal Welchmen who are commemorated at the Shot at Dawn memorial = Private Albert Troughton, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 22nd April 1915, aged 22, Private Major Penn, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 22nd April 1915, age 21, Pte William Jones, Royal Welsh Fusiliers26th October 1917, age unknown.
I have not seen any mention of the three in any public Regimental Records and I am curious as to why they were shot.
Joe.

[Glyn Hughes 17]

My Dear Joe,
I will be on duty at the Museum on Tue 17th, will ring you on land line.
Regards
Glyn.

[jungle1810]

Hello Joe,
The execution of soldiers carried on right to the end of the Great War. Of the 306soldiers executed 23 were Canadians, 22 Irish, 5 New Zealanders.the next of kin knew little or nothing as to why their loved ones were shot due to the official secrets act and to prevent a public outcry.In general they were shot for cowardice and desertion. Today it would be put down to trauma or shellshock, but the Generals in the Great War did not or would not face this fact. By coincidence two Riflemen named Donovan were shot at dawn
Regards Don

[jungle1810]

Hello Joe,
In pursuing this subject I came across a story of two RWF men who were seperated from their Battalion but in all innocence made there way back to the English lines. they happened to be met by an English Battalion. On being questioned it was found they could only speak Welsh. The C.O. was doubtful of their nationality and they were told they would be Court Martialled as spies. An officer of this Battalion done them a great service by locating their Battalion. I do not know how????? But the Adjutant of their Battalion made his way post haste to where they were being held and saved their bacon.
Regards Don

[jungle1810]

Hello Joe,
I have a list of all the names of the soldiers shot at dawn. I can bring a copy to the AGM if you are interested. That is if I am not pre empting Major Glyn Hughes's plans for you on Tuesday. I am doing a bit of work on this theme and am trying to place a regiment to all these names, but I had to put it on the back burner for a while. the list includes where these men are buried. As a point of interest some where in this new monument is an avenue of trees and a plaque from the Royal Welch is on one of the trees, so we do have some form of recognition in this new monument. I suppose that the other Welsh regiments have done the same.In conclusion about 150,000 German soldiers deserted and tried to flee to a neutral country . Only 18 of those caught were executed.
Regards Don

[Glyn Hughes 17]

My Dear Don,
Thank you Don, all this Info, is most useful.
Regards
Glyn.

[jungle1810]

Hello Glyn,
A labour of love as the saying goes.
Regards Don

[john1]

Joe, thank you for raising this question I have enjoyed reading the responses to this post. Don your knowledge, attention to detail and zealousness on this subject is impressive to say the least. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

John

[Smokeyjoe]

Hello Joe,
I have a list of all the names of the soldiers shot at dawn. I can bring a copy to the AGM if you are interested. That is if I am not pre empting Major Glyn Hughes's plans for you on Tuesday. I am doing a bit of work on this theme and am trying to place a regiment to all these names, but I had to put it on the back burner for a while. the list includes where these men are buried. As a point of interest some where in this new monument is an avenue of trees and a plaque from the Royal Welch is on one of the trees, so we do have some form of recognition in this new monument. I suppose that the other Welsh regiments have done the same.In conclusion about 150,000 German soldiers deserted and tried to flee to a neutral country . Only 18 of those caught were executed.
Regards Don

Thank's Don,

I have read the list on the Shot At Dawn web site but for some reason missed the RWF names, having read some of the Court Martial records it just shows how unjustly the very young soldiers were treated at that time.
Hope to see you at the re-union,
Joe.

[A T Marshall]

Hello, The information available on the members mentioned, of the RWF who were executed during the First World War, is 10853 Pte. A.Troughton 1 RWF. aged 22 and 10958 Pte. M. Penn 1 RWF aged 21 were executed for desertion on the 22nd of April 1915. Both were regular soldiers.Theirs was the 5th double execution of the war. 15437 Pte. C W Knight 10 RWF. aged 28. from London was executed for murder on the 15 November 1915. his was the fourth and final case of murder of 1915. He was tried by a Field GCM rather than a GCM. His unit had only landed in France 5 weeks previously. On the 3rd of November, Pte. Knight who was drunk, opened fire indiscriminately killing Pte. Edwards, and wounding 1 other man. He was arrested by CSM Fisher, tried on the 6th of November and shot 9 days later..15954 Pte. William Jones 9th RWF was executed for desertion He was apparently already serving under a suspended death sentence for desertion! He disappeared whilst on the 15/6/1917 he was escorting a wounded man to the dressing station. On the 4/9/1917 he gave himself up to the Provost's in Bristol. He was shot at Kemmel Hill on 25th of October 1917..... Regards Alex

[Aled Roberts]

15437 Pte. C W Knight 10 RWF. aged 28. from London was executed for murder on the 15 November 1915. his was the fourth and final case of murder of 1915. He was tried by a Field GCM rather than a GCM. His unit had only landed in France 5 weeks previously. On the 3rd of November, Pte. Knight who was drunk, opened fire indiscriminately killing Pte. Edwards, and wounding 1 other man. He was arrested by CSM Fisher, tried on the 6th of November and shot 9 days later..

Further to Alex's excellent post above :

Further details of the victims of Pte William Charles Knight crime.

15461 Pte Alfred Edwards was the son of Elizabeth Samuels (formerly Edwards), and Edward Samuels (stepfather), of Stone Cottages, Avongoch, Ruabon, Denbighshire. He was born in Rhos, Denbigh and resided in Hafod.

He was aged 22 when he was killed by Knight - He was laid to rest in Eecke Churchyard. Eecke (Eeke) is a small village 4 kilometres south of Steenvoorde in the Department of the Nord between Cassel, Hazebrouck, Armentieres and the Belgian border.

The wounded soldier was 24637 Pte Alfred Bernard Poffley from Reading. Both he and Pte Edwards were from C Coy. Poffley received a gunshot wound to the right thigh which saw him evacuated to the UK, and admission to Huddersfield Military Hospital.

He had recovered from his wound sufficiently to join the 62nd Training Reserve on the 1st September 1916, and was later posted to the 24th Bn with a new number of 345789 and saw service in Egypt with the battalion, embarking on the 2nd March 1917. He was hospitalised in Cairo and later joined the Labour Corps.