View Full Version : Sgt Bill Tierney MM - Post War Years
I am looking for my grandfather, who went by Billy Tierney. I have a medal of his that shows his service number being 4126008 and also reads A/CPL A.W.TIERNEY CHES R. He served during the second World War and was last seen in London around 1960, where he was driving a taxi. I cannot find any information on his whereabouts after 1960. I am in the United States and have faced many challenges in trying to find more information. If anyone has any information, or can help, it is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Chris Tierney
Hi Chris,
In the off chance that he is still alive,have you tried www.192.com
If you suspect he has already died, you could apply for his service record from the MOD?
Thank you. I have not yet tried 192.com, but will do so. I doubt if he is still alive, so I will look into applying for his service record. I have had his medals for years and just discovered the engraving on one of them. The engraving with his service number should help my search. Thanks again!
Chris
jungle1810
30-01-2008, 14:46
Hello,
I knew a Bill Tierney in Jamaica he was awarded the M.M. whilst serving with the Cheshires. He also used to box a little. His wife(Margaret) and two children were lost in an aeroplane crash off Newfoundland, on February the 2nd 1953 (Skyways) The Children were listed as A 3 year old boy Colin and a young baby named Trevor.This was in the early days of air trooping As listed in the Regimental History volume six 1945 to 1969 by Gen Riley D.S.O. I do not know if we are relating to the same person????
Regards "Don"
I have had his medals for years and just discovered the engraving on one of them. The engraving with his service number should help my search. Thanks again!
You need to visit the veterans website at the link below, and print off a SARS Form, you then fill it in and send it off with a cheque for £35(double check that). The turnaround time is about 6 months, but the wait will be worth it, and it should answer some of your questions.
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
Can you tell us what medals you have?
Don,
That is my grandfather. My father was born in 1954 in Swindon, England. He must have met my grandmother shortly after his first family was killed in the plane crash. My grandmother told me that he had another family who had been lost in a plane crash. I actually have pictures of him and his first wife from old photos my grandmother had of him.
The medal I have is the Military Medal For Bravery in the Field 1939-1945. He was stationed in Jamaica when he met my grandmother (I believe). My grandmother was from British Honduras (Belize) and her name was Kathleen Iris Biddle. Do you have any information on his whereabouts after Jamaica?
Chris
Well remembered Don, and a sombre reminder of a terrible event that happened within the 1st Bn, 55yrs ago this week.
Chris, Looking at Regimental Records, one slight correction to Don's post. As Don say's your grandfather's first wife was called Margaret, however they had 2 children, a 3yr old girl called Linda and and a baby boy called Dale. All 3 perished on the plane crash.
Contained with regimental Records is a poignant picture of your grandfather assisting families to get onto a Skyways flight leaving Bermuda. The picture caption goes onto state that Cpl Tierney's family were on the next flight.
He is also listed as a member of Anti Tank Platoon as a Sgt in 1954.
You can obtain a copy of Regimental Records of the Royal Welch Fusiliers Vol 6 online. The IBSN is 09525408 8 6
I really appreciate all of your information. What site must I visit to order the book? I am interested in purchasing a copy. Hopefully they ship to the United States.
I have the following medals of my grandfather's (I did some research and found online. I hope I have them correct):
The Military Medal "For Bravery in the Field" 1939-1945
The 1939-1945 British campaign Star
The Africa Star
The WWII Italy Star
The WWII France and Germany Star
The WWII Defence Medal
The 1939-1945 War Service Medal
There is one more medal with the same ribbon as the "France and Germany Star" but just has 1939-1945 on the back. I assume it is for service between 1939 and 1945 in France in Germany.
A Royal Welch Fusiliers "Cap Badge" or clip ???
A Royal Welch Fusiliers Patch
I forgot to mention...
I found a few photographs with his badges. One of them is a picture of passengers boarding an airplane with a "Skyways" decal on the side of it. I'm curious as to if it is a photo of the plane that was lost before it took off. There is no date on the picture.
We would love to have the family photos on our gallery, especially as it covers a very traumatic incident in the modern history of the RWF. If you are happy to do that, you can either email them to me, or upload them yourself.
If possible it would also be nice to have a picture of the medal group, with the inclusion of the military medal they are quite valuable, Richard may give you a better idea about the medals, and what they all relate too.
Do you know how old your Grandfather would be today, assuming he is still alive? If not Don may be able to estimate his age, based on his knowledge of him in the 1950@s.
In reference to the availability of Volume 6 of the Regi Records. It can be purchased via the RWF Museum. It is advertised as being sold as a package with Volume 7. You do not require Vol 7, so I suggest an emai to them to clarify that. Pse mention the RWF Forum......We need all the publicity we can get :yes:
http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/pu.html
Good luck
Thanks to Chris,
What a great collection of medals. Chris mentioned to me that they have been kept in a box for 50 odd years, and he has no idea of their value. I'm sure Richard Ward will point you in the right direction, regarding insurance etc, Chris emphasised he would never sell them, but they do need to be looked after. Looking at them Chris I would suggest they need to be correctly court mounted. That may cost a little, and may need to be completed in the UK It will ensure they remain in good condition, and reduce scratches etc, again Richard will probably advise.
Did he serve in Malaya? if so the group may not be complete. Can Don advise?
http://rwf-forum.co.uk/gallery/files/3/AllMedals.JPG
jungle1810
02-02-2008, 16:06
Hello Al,
I have forwarded the e mail with the medals to Richard. I hope he can help Chris in this matter. Bill (Gene) Tierney;s M.M. was won whilst he was serving with the Cheshires. I do not knowq when he was posted to the RWF He served with the RWF in Germany after the war. And then went on to serve in Jamaica. When I dis embarked in Jamaica I was 18 years and about 45 days old.If Bill was alive today and I do not know if he is for certain. If he was an 18 year old when he joined possibly in 1939 that would make his birth date in or about 1921, so he would be about 86 to 88 at least if he is alive today.the skyways photo must be one of the first air troopers to arrive in Jamaica after the accident that killed all aboard the first plane. But I doubt very much if it was the one that went down off Newfoundland, as you will appreciate when the plane landed in Jamaica the new arrivals would be met by representatives of the first batttalion and ferried back to Up Park Camp the plane that went down had a lot of trouble during this flight. It had to have an inspection and work done on it at least twice most probably in Iceland. I did have all the info on this plane and a report but I started packing to move house and this item is packed.I have hit a glitch on my move more on this later. I know that one Fusilier who was supposed to board this plane was talking to a mate and they agreed to swap places such is the quirk of fate.
Regards Don
jungle1810
02-02-2008, 16:08
Hello Al
"Gene " Tierney definately did not serve in Malaya.
Regards Don
jungle1810
02-02-2008, 20:27
Hello Al,
I just phoned Len Watts who was a Sjt in Jamaica for news of Tierney. Len ststes he married an Americam lady whilst he was in Belize.Len also married an Honduran lady.To the best of Len's knowledge Tierney served with the first in Germany and went to Jamaica with the first.Len reckons that Bill left the army when we had the presentation of new colours by the Queen in July 1954. It is believed Bill was either a taxi driver or had his own taxi service in Swindon Not much more is known about Bill's where abouts from then on. I did hear a whisper that he was seen in the Swansea (Sketty) area in or about 1960
More news if I hear any thing new.
RBD.
Thank you for this information! Unfortunately, I emailed someone a few years back and 1960 was the last date I found out he had been seen. Are you saying his real name is Gene Tierney? My father's name is William Alfred Tierney and his mother used to tell him that he was named after his father. We always assumed my grandfather's name was William Alfred as well.
Chris
The chances are that Bill has probably passed on.
However Chris, would like to find any Tierney family members within the UK. Chris's grandmother and Bill Tierney split and she returned to the US with their son(Chris's dad), and they never had any contact with each other after 1956.
Interestingly I found this, perhaps a deceased ancestor of Bill ?
http://www.stockport1914-1918.co.uk/soldier.php?name_id=2518
Chris,
If we assume that we assume he has already died. It may be possible to locate other family members within the UK by tracing his death certificate. That may be accomplished if we have his birth date?. Is there any info within the family?
OR.....apply for his service record. this will tell you where he was from, and open up other family members to trace
Mr. Donovan had mentioned Bill (Gene) Tierney. Was Gene my grandfather's middle name, first name, or nickname? I am familiar with the actress Gene Tierney, so I did not know if this a gag nickname or part of his real name?
The info on my father's birth certificate will be the only info I will have on my grandfather. I will begin to look into the necessary forms I need to fill out to obtain information on his service record, death certificate, etc.
The link you posted about William Tierney in the Great War is interesting. I saw that while searching on Google and thought it may be a relative.
I would assume it is unlikely that he had anymore children after my father, but if so, I would be interested in knowing. I have discovered it is an uphill battle to find information past 1960, but the information I have found through this website has been very helpful. I will keep you posted.
Thank you,
Chris
jungle1810
03-02-2008, 23:54
Hello Chris,
I did not mean to be facetious in regard to Bill by putting in his nick name which was "Gene" as you so rightly observed it was a nick name from the film star you mentioned.If he did lie about his age at what ever date, and for what ever reason it would be difficult to envisage how old he would be today. My guess was based on a date picked out of the sky 1939 the year the second world war started???So it would mean a theoretical date of birth around about 1921 deduct this from 2008 leaves you with a possible age of 87 in 2008. But this is not an Einstein theory it is full of holes but just a piece of logic no more.
Regards Don
Don,
No problem! I know how nicknames go (my friends call me Squinty...I have my grandfather's eyes and squint when I smile!) I looked at my dad's birth certificate and verified that his name is also William Alfred Tierney. My grandmother died at 84 in 2000. I know my grandfather was younger than her, but not by much. I would assume that he would be in his late 80's if he were still alive, which I doubt. I will begin looking into death records as well as his service record. Thank you for your information. It has been a tremendous help.
Chris
Aled Roberts
04-02-2008, 09:47
Hi Chris
I got your email ok. Will be back to you asap.
Richard
I downloaded the SAR form. It is saying I need a Court Order in order to obtain any information because I do not have my grandfather's written consent. Do I have to obtain this in order to get any information about him?
I also have no way of knowing his date of birth. Does this mean I will not be able to obtain a Death Certificate?
My father was born in Swindon in December 1954. I have his birth certificate. Is there any information I could get from there? It only shows "W.A. Tierney" as my grandfather's name. There is no other information.
I have always been told (by my Aunt and grandmother) that my grandfather escaped from German prison camps twice during WWII and if he could do that, then he could disappear forever if he wanted. I'm hoping this isn't true and there is a trail somewhere!
Chris
I found the following on http://www.burmastar.org.uk/searches.htm.
WILLIAM (BILL) TIERNEY sailed on the Sterling Castle from Liverpool 9th Jan '42, arrived in Freetown 22nd Jan.'42. Left Freetown 23rd Jan '42, arrived Duban SA 10th March '42. Stayed Clarwood Camp 4 days. Sailed on The Empire Woodlark to Bombay,from Bombay to Poona, stayed 4 weeks. Arrived Dimapur June 5th '42. Does anyone know what Regiment this would have been?. He then joined the 14th Army. Left Rangoon Nov. 26th 1945. He never spoke of his experiences, I am try to find as much information as I can. Thank You.
Jim Tierney (son)
Any chances he could be speaking of my grandfather? Unfortunately, he (Jim) did not put an email address to contact him.
Unless Richard can confirm otherwise, the medal group you have does not suggest India Service. Try emailing The Cheshire Regiment HQ's which was at Chester. Their Comrades Association may have knowledge of him
I also have no way of knowing his date of birth. Does this mean I will not be able to obtain a Death Certificate?
We have a supporter of the site at the RWF Museum. I have passed on the details, in the hope that they can locate his Date of Birth.
Thank you! I am also going to do some research with the Cheshire Regiment as you suggested. I have separated all of my grandfather's RWF pictures and will scan them no later than this weekend. I will send them to you as soon as I get the chance.
Chris
Hi Chris,
Some good news:
I have been in touch with Lt Colonel Richard Sinnett RWF. Like Don Donovan he served with your grandfather, and remembers him well.
More importantly he has the citation for Bill's Military Medal. It appears to be a fascinating story, he made 10 escape attempts, the tenth being successful. He also has the transcripts of the interviews conducted with Bill and MI9 on his return to the UK(every escaper was interviewed).
I am still in the process of identifying Bill's birthdate to see if we can locate a death certificate, assuming he has died.
Col Sinnett would like to make contact with you and pass on these documents, I have passed your email address to him, and he will be in touch. It appears that your grandfather was an extremely determined individual.
Keep us all updated.
Good Luck
That is excellent news. I knew that my grandfather had successfully escaped but it will be interesting to read the documentation because I have never heard the entire story.
I emailed the Cheshire museum and they put me in touch with someone who sent me the forms to get my grandfather's service record. I have printed out the forms and will have my father fill them out, as only the next of kin can request the documentation. I also apologize for not getting the pictures to you yet. I will scan them as soon as possible and email them. Thanks again for everything and as always, if you find out more information, please let me know. I will be looking forward to hearing from Col Sinnett.
Chris
Chris has been kind enough to send me some family photos. which I include within the thread as they put faces to all the detail we have covered. The photo below shows Bill and his first wife Margaret, who with their 2 children were on that fateful skyways flight in 1953 that crashed off Newfoundland. No bodies were ever recovered.
http://rwf-forum.co.uk/gallery/files/3/pic3.jpg
In this picture Cpl Bill Tierney MM can be seen in the left of the frame. Families can be seen in the background boarding a Skyways flight. Bill's family departed on the next plane after this one left. A cut down version of this picture appeared in Regimental Records 1946-1969
http://rwf-forum.co.uk/gallery/files/3/Skyways.jpg
Finally we have a photo of Bill and his 2nd wife Iris who originated from British Honduras. She is CWT1382's Grandmother. She and Bill split up in the mid 1950's
http://rwf-forum.co.uk/gallery/files/3/BTandIris2.jpg
Hi Chris,
No joy on Bill's birth date I'm afraid. Is there any further updates from yourself
Unfortunately, not yet. I am still waiting to get the interview regarding my grandfather's escape attempts from Lt Col Sinnett. The form I have completed to obtain his service record says that I need a death certificate in order to get his information. I'm going to go ahead and send it without the death certificate and hope they will release his information to me. It is a waiting game from there, as the form states it can take anywhere between 6 to 8 months before the information will be released. I will give updates as soon as I hear something.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris, Have you tried the Cheshire Regiment Museum. He started his service with them. The fact that he was also awarded an MM might help, as his personal details may appear on an awards list. In addition, they may have the medal citation.
Its got to be worth a go
http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/museums/0000000024-Cheshire-Military-Museum.htm
The Cheshire Regimental Museum is where I obtained the forms to get all of his information. I am going to send in the forms as soon as I get the chance. They would not give me any information over email. I will keep you posted.
Great News!
It looks like I have made some progress in my search and may have found a family member.
Lt. Col. Sinnett sent me the documentation on my grandfather. Along with the documentation, he was able to find two links with individuals looking to find information on William (Bill) Tierney. I had already found the first link and I do not believe that is regarding my grandfather. The second link describes the P.O.W. camps and mentions my grandfather's M.M.:
www.forcesreunited.org.uk/lookingfor_list.asp
I discovered the posting was made by a Paul Tierney after sending a message to the poster. I am assuming that I am related to Paul. Unfortunately, I was not able to see Paul's direct email address, but was able to send him a message through Forces Reunited. I hope that he replies. The following information was listed for two different Paul Tierney's (possibly the same person with two profiles) on Forces Reunited:
1. Name: paul tierney
Service Number: p068803
Regiment: HMS St. Vincent
Regiment2: HMS Collingwood
Regiment3: HMS Nubian
Regiment4: HMS St. Angelo
Regiment5: HMS Victory
Regiment6: HMS Blake
Regiment7: HMS Victory
Rank: c.e.m
Year Joined: 1963
Year Left: 1971
2. Name: Paul Tierney
Regiment: 2 Royal Military Police
Regiment2: Royal Military Police
Rank: Lance Corporal
Year Joined: 1986
Year Left: 1989
Where are you now?: Electrician
I have reason to believe (if it is not 2 profiles for the same person) that the Paul Tierney I am looking for is the first one. Does anyone know how I might be able to contact him in the case that I do not get a reply message through Forces Reunited?
For those of you who have been following this fascinating story. We have now obtained the details of Bill's escape attempts during the period 1942-45 following his capture in North Africa. Obviously this document is of massive importance to Chris and his Dad, especially Dad, who never met his father, and knew virtually nothing about him.
Thanks to Chris for allowing us to reprint them:
Click on the link below to view:
http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=92
Quick update:
Paul Tierney sent me a message through Forces Reunited:
"hi mate my father army no was4126008 he was captured in 1942 at mersa matru he was also at pow camp at derna."
Paul Tierney is my uncle!
He did not send me his direct email. I'm sure he is in as much shock as I am currently in. I am hoping he will send me his email shortly.
BINGO...........:yes: or as you might say in the States YEEH HA
So from a tiny query about a bloke called Bill, potentially you have located your Dad's brother. Excellent and well done. I can imagine Paul must be pretty shell shocked. I hope he will make proper contact with your family.
I'm sure I speak for all of us who have been following the thread, when I wish you all the very best as you progress along this trail.
Good Luck and keep us posted. Better still get Paul to sign up to the forum :biggrin:
No worries! I already told Paul to check out your forum to see the pictures we posted! I have my fingers crossed that Paul knows something about my grandfather and isn't on here doing the same thing as me.
I want to thank all of you for your help and hopefully this was the piece I needed to end my search. Drinks are on me when I make it to the U.K.!
Interesting, and disturbing news...
Paul never knew my grandfather. He is older than my father and is one of three children from my grandfather's "first" marriage, if it really was his first. There are three children, Paul, Maureen, and Pat. I was also informed that my grandfather had another child in Germany in 1947 who is only 3 days older than Paul. That child's name is Kraus Willhelme Tierney. It seems my grandfather was a busy man. Fortunately, Paul has already requested his service record and is about to get all of the information we need. He is going to forward it to me. At least I found family out of this but it wasn't exactly the news I was expecting to hear about my grandfather.
Thanks for the update Chris. A massive amount of news to take in for your family. Your father now has 4 siblings. Can I ask where Paul is living? was it the Swansea area.
On the positive side, it will allow a large group of people to understand their family line. You have an interesting time ahead of you Chris.
Paul told me that he lives in Hillingdon (Uxbridge, Middlesex area). I have an aunt here in the U.S. His other sister, Pat, died when she was 16 right around the time that my father was born. My father and Paul have spoken and he has called an left a voicemail for me. I will get in touch with him soon. He sent pictures and, besides being heavier than my grandfather, he definitely looks like him and there is also resemblance between Paul and my father.
Paul mentioned that he has the documentation on my grandfather's escape attempts. He also said that he has applied for my grandfather's service record and it will be released to him in upcoming months. He is going to send me copies once it is released. Also, my grandfather is from Ireland, Paul insisted.
big pault
20-03-2008, 19:34
hi iam paul r tierney chrisses uncle it is great that 6 weeks ago my son bought me a lap top and said try the web and now i have seen photos of my dad (never seen him before) and found a brother who did not know of me either so thanks and thanks again
big paul t
A very big welcome to you Paul, we are really pleased that you have all found each other. Its been a fascinating story, albeit tragic in parts. Its gratifying that ultimately, the retelling of your Dads story has meant that something positive has emerged. That is the power of the web.
You and your family can always be assured of warm welcome on this site,and we wish you well as you get to know your extended family.
jungle1810
22-03-2008, 13:19
Hello Big Pault. I did try and acknowledge the private e mail you sent. I appreciate your sentiments and am glad you have "found" more info on your lost relative. I am sorry to be late answering your e mail but I have been quite busy lately.hope all is well with you and yours
Regards Don
Hello! It has been some time since I have posted anything but I wanted to give everyone an update. We all were able to meet and I have actually hung out with my cousin James, who is Paul's son, quite a bit. James' girlfriend is from Houston, which is only about a 4 hour drive from my residence, so he is in the states often. We actually went snowboarding in Vail, Colorado last month and had a blast. Paul came to the U.S. and finally got to meet my dad, his brother. I have attached a picture of all of the Tierneys out on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. From left to right: Chris (me), James (Paul's son), Paul, Bill (my dad) *As for the women in the picture, I have no clue who they are nor do I remember meeting them!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/cwt1382/new_orleans_047.jpg
I hope everyone is well and thanks to all of you who helped make this happen!
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