This is a Disgrace

[sox3044]

This was taken from a uk paper on Wed


Disabled veterans jeered at swimming pool
By Thomas Harding, Lucy Cockcroft and Brendan Carlin
Last Updated: 1:47am GMT 25/11/2007



Charles Guthrie: Our defence has been underfunded for years
Frontine: Soldiers in the Iraq and Afghanistan war

Injured soldiers who lost their limbs fighting for their country have been driven from a swimming pool training session by jeering members of the public.

The men, injured during tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, were taking part in a rehabilitation session at a leisure centre, when two women demanded they be removed from the pool. They claimed that the soldiers "hadn't paid" and might scare the children.

The incident has sparked widespread condemnation. Adml Lord Boyce, a former head of the Armed Forces, said last night the women should be "named and shamed".


The disabled men were injured during tours of Iraq and Afghanistan
"These people are beneath contempt and everything should be done to get their names and publish them in the press," he said. "It is contemptible that people who have given up their limbs for their country should be so abused when they are trying to get fit again."

It comes after calls for the public to do more to welcome home troops back from tours of duty and to recognise the bravery of those fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The unpleasant scenes broke out at Leatherhead Leisure Centre in Surrey when the wounded veterans, who are at Headley Court Military Hospital, had to use the 25-metre public pool because the hydro-pool at the defence rehabilitation centre is not big enough for swimming.

The servicemen were about to begin their weekly swimming therapy in closed-off lanes when they were verbally abused by the swimmers.

One woman in her 30s was said to be infuriated by the lane closures saying the soldiers did not deserve to be there when she had paid.

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It was also reported that others complained that limbless servicemen were scaring children at the centre.

The atmosphere was said to be so tense that the soldiers' instructors removed them.

Charles Murrin, 79, a Navy veteran who saw the incident, said: "The woman said the men do not deserve to be in there and that she pays to come in the pool and they don't. I spoke to the instructor in the changing room afterwards and he was livid."

It is not the first time that Headley Court neighbours have been accused of poor behaviour.

There was uproar earlier this year after residents objected to planning permission to convert a home into a six-suite hostel for injured soldiers' families to stay in. The local council later approved the building work.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "We are disappointed that a small number of people objected to the closure of swimming lanes so that patients of Headley Court could use them."

The incident comes weeks after the Help For Heroes appeal was launched to raise £5 million to build a full-size pool and gym at the centre.

Labour will today aim to repair its battered reputation with the Armed Forces by offering all military veterans priority NHS treatment, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

The concession, ordered by the Health Secretary, Alan Johnson, will be available to the estimated 4.8 million ex-servicemen and women, sources said last night.

[5haron]

When I read things like this, it makes me very very sad, and a lot angrier that there are such sour and petty individuals in the world. The fact that this was service personnel notwithstanding, how can anyone with a conscience object to a person who has suffered injury and loss of limb, trying to get fit and healthy? Scaring thekids? Kids get scared when the parents are unable to adequately explain what the problem is.

Petty, peevish, stupid, ignorant individuals.


btw - I'm nicking this for my other forum, incidences like this should be brought to the public eye.

Shar x

[ukcalling]

what a disgrace, what is society comming to, people seem to forget the important jobs our boys and girls do for our country, ok granted most might not agrea with the tours but like true professionals they just get on with it. i say bring back national service and then maybe people like this can start setting examples towards there kids, is it any wonder this country is in the state its in

[BennytheBall]

An utter disgrace

In Sharpe's day (Benard Cornwell) those 2 women would have been flogged for making statements like that. Disgusting!
BennytheBall

[Rob 33]

I know the Sun News covered the story, and did want to know if any 1 knew the people involved giving the abuse, pity they didn't get there pics all over the paper. Who ever was with the soldiers should of called the police, besides filling them in, sure there is some law they could of had them on.

Come on Sgt Sid brother of Larry enlighten us

[5haron]

A regular poster on Caergybi.com just answered with this, I thought you'd like to see it.
Shar x
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




One woman in her 30s was said to be infuriated by the lane closures saying the soldiers did not deserve to be there when she had paid.



She might , at some time, become aware that there is more than one way of becoming entitled to something.

Her attitude is not new I'm afraid:

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

['Tommy' by Rudyard Kipling]

[britaylor49]

Unbelievable!!

Having been in headley court myself some years ago recovering from knee surgery I can honestly say what a fantastic facility it is with brilliant staff who do their absolute best to help rehabilitate people with multitudes of injuries. I remember using the mentioned swimming pool back then and we didnt exactly get the warmest of receptions then. These people should be 100% ASHAMED of their behaviour.

They just dont understand what servicemen and women go through.

Bri

[Cpl Hill40 trigger]

This was taken from a uk paper on Wed


Disabled veterans jeered at swimming pool
By Thomas Harding, Lucy Cockcroft and Brendan Carlin
Last Updated: 1:47am GMT 25/11/2007



Charles Guthrie: Our defence has been underfunded for years
Frontine: Soldiers in the Iraq and Afghanistan war

Injured soldiers who lost their limbs fighting for their country have been driven from a swimming pool training session by jeering members of the public.

The men, injured during tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, were taking part in a rehabilitation session at a leisure centre, when two women demanded they be removed from the pool. They claimed that the soldiers "hadn't paid" and might scare the children.

The incident has sparked widespread condemnation. Adml Lord Boyce, a former head of the Armed Forces, said last night the women should be "named and shamed".


The disabled men were injured during tours of Iraq and Afghanistan
"These people are beneath contempt and everything should be done to get their names and publish them in the press," he said. "It is contemptible that people who have given up their limbs for their country should be so abused when they are trying to get fit again."

It comes after calls for the public to do more to welcome home troops back from tours of duty and to recognise the bravery of those fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The unpleasant scenes broke out at Leatherhead Leisure Centre in Surrey when the wounded veterans, who are at Headley Court Military Hospital, had to use the 25-metre public pool because the hydro-pool at the defence rehabilitation centre is not big enough for swimming.

The servicemen were about to begin their weekly swimming therapy in closed-off lanes when they were verbally abused by the swimmers.

One woman in her 30s was said to be infuriated by the lane closures saying the soldiers did not deserve to be there when she had paid.

Army funding shortage 'is insult to troops'
Brown hits back after ex-military chiefs' attack
Army crisis as number of troops leaving soars
It was also reported that others complained that limbless servicemen were scaring children at the centre.

The atmosphere was said to be so tense that the soldiers' instructors removed them.

Charles Murrin, 79, a Navy veteran who saw the incident, said: "The woman said the men do not deserve to be in there and that she pays to come in the pool and they don't. I spoke to the instructor in the changing room afterwards and he was livid."

It is not the first time that Headley Court neighbours have been accused of poor behaviour.

There was uproar earlier this year after residents objected to planning permission to convert a home into a six-suite hostel for injured soldiers' families to stay in. The local council later approved the building work.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "We are disappointed that a small number of people objected to the closure of swimming lanes so that patients of Headley Court could use them."

The incident comes weeks after the Help For Heroes appeal was launched to raise £5 million to build a full-size pool and gym at the centre.

Labour will today aim to repair its battered reputation with the Armed Forces by offering all military veterans priority NHS treatment, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

The concession, ordered by the Health Secretary, Alan Johnson, will be available to the estimated 4.8 million ex-servicemen and women, sources said last night.

It was quite dissapointing to hear about this incident at Leatherhead Pool, i have used the facility in the past 3 years during my numerous times there. The sessions are not long and do not take up all the pool, there is plenty of room and they are usually booked at quieter times.I expect the women did not really like seeing injured servicemen. When i have been there the general public have been polite and no problem, these women do not deserve to be part of this country and i hope they get named and shamed in the press.
The staff at Headley Court do a good job with limited resources.
Those people objecting to the family accomodation being built all live in massive mansions in the surrounding areas, and were probably worried about the value of their properties.

[led9750]

What a Country we live in , The women that complained need to take good look in the mirror at them selfs , selfish *******s like this need to spend a week in any of the war zones our men are serving today , it realy gets me that the lads in question did not asked to be injured this way for the rest of the lives , but due to the way life has gone they are injured. I spent 17 years in the army but take my hat off to the boys in now , they ****ed around from pillar to post and when you get home you get looked on as dirt .
But to the ladies that complained Beware one day it might be a family member of yours that finds himself in need of some kind words or altleast some understanding.
.
Thanks all
One Mad Led blything

[john1]

If these two women (that’s the third word I have put in there the first two would have been blanked) had asked for them to be removed because they were a different colour or from a different social class to themselves it would have been them that were removed. Why are they not being prosecuted for their actions?

They should be named and asked to explain why they think they are more entitled to the use of a public facility than someone else, and what gives them the right to complain about the appearance of an individual regardless of the circumstances that caused that condition. Children should see this sort of thing because then they may grow up with some respect for sacrifice something these women clearly have no concept of!

Stating that they hadn’t paid is immaterial and frankly the comment is beyond contempt. I hope this goes further and isn’t brushed under the carpet because of the lack of funding and facilities for injured ex-servicemen. These women should be arrested for abuse and prosecuted for discrimination against disabled people.

What goes around comes around. Sorry, rant over. I mentioned this to a colleague who lives near the area who is all for finding out who they are and going round there to knock some sense in to them.

[bennyball2]

Discusting this is an offence and these scum need to be brought to court:

Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (back to top)



It is unlawful for employers to discriminate against current or prospective workers who have a disability or who have had a disability in the past.



Harassment is not referred to as a separate issue under disability legislation. However, harassing a disabled person on account of disability will almost always amount to a detriment under the DDA.

its there in black and white why arnt the government department responsible taking action?

[Martyn Leader]

There's alot of this type of issue in the media at the moment but I think Rudyard Kipling sums it all up quite neatly and much better than any of us could. Just goes to show that the same issues were just as prevalent back then as they are now. Only soldiers will ultimately be able to understand other soldiers ...

TOMMY

by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

[jungle1810]

Hello All,
When general Dannat visited Brecon recently he was heard to say on the BBC Welsh news, we have a lot to thank the Welsh for as it appears that Wales contribute 8% of soldiers compared to an average of 4% from the rest of the UK.A some what down to earth compliment for all soldiers but at least the fighting men of this country are recognised by former C.I.G.S Staff officers for their qualities and hard ships they are suffering.and last but not least by general Dannat who is still in office and speaking his mind for all the brave men fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan As a point of interest possibly one of Englands finest generals( general Wellington) aka "The iron Duke) once remarked that British troops should never be called upon to fight in this country and he was referring to Afghanistan. Will we ever learn from history.
Regards RBD

[kevin Richards 48]

what a disgrace these women need to be sent over there them selfs to see what our lads
have to do or are they part of the other side b****es

[Thom15]

Unfortunately nothing much has changed for decades. I have been in the care field for over twenty five years (soon after leaving the RWF). I first became interested in working with disabled people when volunteering at a local swimming pool with Dai Ross when posted to N. Ireland. Since that time I (and colleagues) have had to defend or fight for the rights of people with various challenges, physical or mental.

I have also worked as a volunteer for the Special Olympics in Canada for over ten years and still we find that there are many people out there that can not stand sharing a sports facility with our challenged athletes.

I could go on and on, however the point being is that there are a great deal of ignorant, selfish and nasty people in this world. Fortunately they are outnumbered by the wonderful, caring people of this planet.

I still hope these women's (not ladies) names make it to the papers so that they can hang their heads in shame.

Thanks for allowing me to blow of some steam
Dilwyn

[Williams04]

Great post by sox, this highlights the total disregard and lack of respect that our brave service people have to endure by mindless bigots who probably don't have the slightest inkling of what our troops go through, I wonder if their attitudes would change if it was one of their children!

[sox3044]

I didnt realy want to comment on it as my feelings are undescribable, but as Sharon and Col Leader have stated Kiplin sums it up realy well. But I still believe that most civil perception of the Forces derives from the lack of leadership from the Government, it all goes back to the covernant as far as im concerned. Soldiers dont want to be branded heros we just strive for the respect we feel we are entitled to.