Capt Patrick McCormick..death

[Mike McCormick]

Could anyone advise me?
My Gt Grandfather Patrick McCormick enlisted in the ranks 1860. Was commissioned 1873. He transferred to 1 RWF 10.4.1880 and sailed a couple of months later on HM troopship Malabar. for India.He died in India 5.6.1884.
My question is ..Would his widow Georgina have had to register his death in the UK? Would his enlistment details, Next of Kin, place of birth etc be at Kew?
I can't trace any marriage, were there army chaplains in those days? Could he have got married in camp?
Any help/advice really appreciated.
Mike

[ap1]

Hi Mike,

Army Chaplains could, and still do conduct marriage ceremonys. Have a look at the link below to 1837.com. It has a searchable GRO Chaplains index, covering your period of interest. It is a pay site, and is very accuarate.

http://www.1837online.com/Trace2web/OverseasStartSearchServlet?searchType=D

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Al Poole

[Mike McCormick]

Many thanks Al,
tried 1837 for marriage and birth of eldest child but no luck.
Would the enlistment records be at Kew?His service started 1860 although I have only found the details from 1867 starting at Plymouth 1867/8.Aldershot 1869 chatham 1870 woolwich 1871 Curragh 1872/3 Coomassie(Medal) 1874 Gibraltar 1875/9(my grandfather born there)1880 Plymouth prior to sailing for India.There were five children in all The eldest born at Newport followed by middx, Ireland, Gibraltar(2) all on 1881 Census. He was not present at this census.
Thank you again for your interest
Mike

[Mike McCormick]

I post this thread not knowing whether it is a new thread or maybe someone has already made the same suggestion.
I am tracing my Gt Grandfather Captain Patrick McCormick who died serving in 1 RWF in india.1884
I thought at last I had traced his death and ordered the death certificate.
It was not my Relative.
Is there anywhere on site where we can post details of certificates purchased that might help another person searching their for their relatives?
Mike

[Bob Bacon]

Mike

In here will do fine

[Mike McCormick]

Thanks Bob,
32 BD 2023 Private Patrick McCormick aged 38 died Dysentery 11/12/1882 Fyzabad. Officers Signature Major H.M.Lowry.
Anyone researching this man most welcome to Certificate.
Mike

[ap1]

Hi Mike,

Just a thought, have you signed up to the mailing list at:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~clday/mailing.htm By signing up you will be able to inform the 700 odd researchers that you have this persons details and also advertise your own family interest.

Its quite a comprehensive site, with plenty of resources for anyone interested in researching family members who served in India.

Best wishes

Al

[Mike McCormick]

Hello again Al,
thanks for the tip, I have registered and posted a message.
Mike

[Mike McCormick]

Al,
I have at last managed to get to the National Archives at Kew.
I thought it may help someone intending to visit to be made aware that it can be quite daunting.
The staff there do try to help where they can but the volume of visitors means they have little or no time at all to help the individual.
Before visiting you MUST do your homework.Look at the site on the internet, take every scrap of info you have and be prepared for a long hard slog.
After travelling for nearly 3 hours in heavy traffic and 2 1/2 hrs back, the cost of petrol, I came to the conclusion that it would have been better to pay for the services of a researcher who knew their way around.
I was directed to an Index system for officers that was not complete and after a long trawl came up with nothing.
My only find for the day was an entry in the Army List 1884 which gave Patrick McCormick as Hon captain 19/11/1883.
Was Hon Capt a provisional promotion? Perhaps you could throw some light on that for me Al.
I am not giving in, I would dearly like to see his enlistment papers or at least place of birth in Ireland.
Merry Christmas to all
Mike

[ap1]

Hi Mike,

You may have inadvertently found something here:

According to a few sites on the net. Hon Capt was a rank given to members of the Indian Army/Civil Service, during the empire days, note:

Departmental Officers were recruited from the EIC/Indian Army's Conductors and served mainly in the Ordnance, Commissariat and Public Works Departments. Prior to 1904 they held the ranks (in ascending order) of Deputy Assistant Commissary, Assistant Commissary and Deputy Commissary. In 1867 these ranks were given complementary honorary officer ranks ranging from Honorary Ensign to Honorary Captain. From 1904 Departmental Officer ranks were regraded as Assistant Commissary, Deputy Commissary and Commissary with equivalent honorary officer ranks from Honorary Lieutenant to Honorary Major. In 1921 the prefix 'Honorary' was discarded and the complementary ranks assimilated to those of regular officers.

I wonder if he was remployed within the Indian Army just before he died? If so it opens a whole new strand of research.

Thanks for the info regarding the NA, I intend to visit just after Xmas. I have already booked my readers ticket, and am getting all my info together.

Al

[Mike McCormick]

Thanks again Al,
I used to search site that posted info about the Indian Army. Think it was british genealogy.com.
Will find it again and post the question.
Mike

[Mike McCormick]

Al,
I posted the question of Hon.Capt on the Rootsweb/India site and someone came up with an Hon.Capt was a full Captain but did not receive a Captains pay!!!
sounds feasible.
Mike

[ap1]

Mike,

Did you manage to identify Patricks service number?

[Mike McCormick]

Hello again Al,
unfortunately I have not yet managed to find his service no.
At the moment I am chasing a place of burial at Fort William Cemetary, Calcutta.
Many thanks for your interest,
Mike
PS Should any of our members needed a look up or grave visit in the Brighton area I would be happy to oblige.

[Roger]

I am sorry that I am late coming in with this information which may already be known.

It is possible to get copies of the BMD registers at the British Library but I found it easier to apply for my GGF's Marriage and my GF's birth certificates through the overseas department of the GRO. The certificates are copies from the Service Departments Register. Although the birth cert gave my GGF's service number the marriage cert did not.

[ap1]

Mike,

It might be useful if you update us to where you are with your research, and what your still looking for. Someone reading it might just be able to fit a piece of the jigsaw. Remember to include any details that would aid further searches.

Spk soon
Al

[Mike McCormick]

Many thanks for the response and very kind offer.
Captain Patrick McCormick.
Born Ireland 14/7/1837, enlisted July 1860(Don't know where)
1861 Census at Eastry Parish of Walmer, in barracks rank Corporal.
1871 Census Woolwich with wife Georgina and 2 children now an Instructor Musketry
1881 Census Patrick in India His wife and 5 children at Lambeth Surrey.
I have found him mentioned in the Army List three times, the second time when promoted Quartermaster (19/11/1873 The third as Hon.Captain 1882.
He died 5/6/1884 in India.( I am pretty sure Calcutta Bhowanipore or Fort William.I have the Movements of the 2nd Battalion from 1867 until 1880
He transferred from 2nd Battalion to the 1st on 10/4/1880 and sailed later the same year to India.
I have ,thanks to you all the commendation made to him by Luke Oconnor V.C
when transferring. I have a good record of his wife and children from then until the present day.
I would love to know where he was born and next of kin on enlistment. Cause of death and cemetary. His children were Catholic and I presume he was.
I have yet to find a marriage (she was Georgina Adkins born London)and was half assuming he was married in Woolwich by an Army Chaplain about 1868.(First child born Newport 1869.)
Ilive in hope someone may read this and trigger of a suggestion that will lead me further.
May I take this oppotunity to thank all who have given advice in the past, it really is appreciated.
Mike

[ap1]

Its just a hunch, but you stated that Georgina was living in Lambeth in 1881.

Looking through BMD, its clear that there are quite a few Adkins living in that area and getting married after 1881. I wonder if her family originated there. So I had another shufti and found this marriage in 1843, its along shot, but it just might be her father. Its an unusual name, and linked to Lambeth, its got to be worth looking at the census's to establish her family

Marriage
Charles Adkins
Year of Registration: 1843
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Lambeth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 4
Page: 249

[Mike McCormick]

Thank you for the effort Al but I have Georgina and family details. Although she was born in London her parents were both from Warwick Birmingham and I have details of them and their children. I also have a second marriage for Georgina after Patricks death. She married Isaac Crocker and bore him another child also christened Georgina before she died in 1900 at Edmonton.
Thank you so much for your interest
Mike

[Mike McCormick]

I am sorry that I am late coming in with this information which may already be known.

It is possible to get copies of the BMD registers at the British Library but I found it easier to apply for my GGF's Marriage and my GF's birth certificates through the overseas department of the GRO. The certificates are copies from the Service Departments Register. Although the birth cert gave my GGF's service number the marriage cert did not.

Copied and posted into my records .Roger many thanks I will contact and see if I am lucky this time.( Did not get any response from a previous enquiry)
Many thanks
Mike

[Mike McCormick]

As you can see it is now 2 years of searching for the death cert of Capt. Patrick McCormick my Gt Grandfather.
I thought I had found it at Lambeth which I had mentioned previously but was refused a copy of the cert because the details I provided (From RWF Museum) were incorrect.
The same reference came up yet again on a search two weeks ago and the details seemed too similar to discount. It looked my only chance so I applied again. This time I provided just the basics along with my fee.
Hey Presto!!! I received a copy back with the wfes details perfectly correct confirming my Gt Grandfather as 1 RWF Quatermaster Cap. Patrick McCormick. Cause of death and place of death as LAMBETH not India s the Museum had stated. Death was stated as two days after the date The Museum had stated.

Would his widow have to register his death in Lambeth his place of residence? even if he died in India? Perhaps for pension or something similar? The death is certified by R W Garnham M.R.C.S, is it possible he was an Army Doctor?? or civilian? I will now search the Medical lists for a Doctor in that area for that time.
Any advice most warmly welcomed.
Mike McCormick

[ap1]

Well done Mike, this has been a long haul for you. Just to remind members McCormick was a close comrade of Luke O'Connor. I would have thought it fairly easy to identify the doctor. As you say....any advice?

[Mike McCormick]

Dr R.W.Garnham was a civilian Doctor so I am assuming Patrick died at home in Brixton.(Cert states Georgina, his wife present at death).
The search goes on.
Thanks to all.
Mike

[Mike McCormick]

I have just come into posession of details from the1851 census for Brompton Barracks, Gillingham. ALL the soldiers appear to be IRISH.
Can anyone throw any light on it for me?
Mike