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sammy
07-10-2007, 17:08
Hi my name is sam and im looking for any info on my great grandfather,im afraid i dont know alot about him,all i do know is that his surname was o'neil and was in the the welch fusiliers.My grandmother told us he died in germany saving a small child from a mine between 1944-1946,if anyone can help that would be great.

ap1
07-10-2007, 18:06
Hi Sam,

Welcome to the Forum. This is a difficult one

Right then, I've checked RWF Roll of Honour for WW2 1939-1945. No mention of O'Neil, so he wasn't killed serving with the regiment during that period.

I've had a look at Regimental Records for the year 1946. No mention in there either, although its fair to say, thats not unusual, as the records tend to look at the bigger picture.

I had a look at the Commonwealth Graves Site, and found an interesting possibility:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2061705

Name: O'NEILL, WILLIAM GEORGE
Initials: W G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Serjeant
Regiment/Service: Welch Regiment
Unit Text: 1/5th Bn.
Age: 25
Date of Death: 02/07/1944
Service No: 3055022
Additional information: Son of Thomas and Johanna O'Neill, of Treharris, Glamorgan.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. D. 9.
Cemetery: ST. MANVIEU WAR CEMETERY, CHEUX

Is it possible that your Grandmother got the Welch Regiment mixed up with The Royal Welch Fusiliers? Does your family have any links with Treharris? The cemetery is located in France.

I do have a couple of other sources that I can check with, but would prefer it if you can check on the above information first. Also, the more detail you can provide, no matter how small, the better the chance of pointing you in the right direction.

Also have you applied for your grandmothers birth certificate? His full name should be on it, I may be able to assist with that.

sammy
07-10-2007, 18:37
Thank you for your help,ive just asked my mother if she knows anymore and she said we have no connection to the treharris that she knows of.We do know that my great grandfather married sarah souter and had 5 childern.
He served in the welch fusiliers in WW2 and was based in wrexham,my grandmother was called margaret o'neil born in wales on dec 26th 1936,have never applied for her birth certificate.

ap1
07-10-2007, 19:25
Good News Sam, Game on :spinny:

Your Great grandfathers name was spelt "O'NEILL"

Your Great Grandmothers name was spelt "SUTER"

The birth certificate details:

Margaret E O'NEILL

Place of Registration - WREXHAM
Volume 11b
Page 300
4th Quarter 1936

The certificate can be ordered online at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

It costs about £7 and will fully name the parents. Order that, and then onto the next stage.

Incidentally do you know roughly what year the eldest child was born?

sammy
07-10-2007, 21:40
Thats great news,thank you so much we will have to order that.The eldest child was a female and born somewhere between 1933-1935,unfortunatly she died when she was still a baby.

ap1
07-10-2007, 22:02
There's more!!!!!!

Your Great Grandfathers name was Michael J O'Neill

He married Sarah in 1935:

4th Quarter 1935
District - Wrexham
Volume 11b
Page 662

sammy
07-10-2007, 22:06
i know that he was married sarah suter,my great uncle is called michael so we did think maybe his name was that

sammy
08-10-2007, 20:42
I dont know if it helps but we do know he got a bravery medal for saving the young child.

ap1
08-10-2007, 21:52
I dont know if it helps but we do know he got a bravery medal for saving the young child.

Do you know what medal he received? And what other detail do you know about the incident. It makes searching a lot easier with the full picture.:biggrin:

sammy
08-10-2007, 23:11
sorry dont know anymore about that,thats all i was ever told.

ap1
08-10-2007, 23:35
I've asked a friend who is involved in regimental archives to have a look, it would be good to get the full story.

sammy
08-10-2007, 23:43
Thank you so much for all your help,it means so much to me if i could know as much about him as i can.

ap1
09-10-2007, 00:17
Hi Sam,

Think I've found him.

The following death was registered on the Army Index of the General records Office

Name: Michael J O'Neill
Age: 34
Station: Duppertal
Year: 1949
Page (2) 2

You now need to order the death certificate from the GRO, his army number and unit may appear on it. Check out this link. Remember you are applying for a death registered overseas. I think Duppertal is in Germany.

http://www.findmypast.com/OrderCertificate.jsp

sammy
09-10-2007, 12:31
WOW thats so cool,im alittle suprised that he died so late

ap1
09-10-2007, 18:40
Things do get distorted slightly as family tales are passed down through the years. Of course we won't know if it is him until you apply for his death cert.

ap1
22-10-2007, 20:00
Many thanks to Anne Pedley at the RWF Museum, we now have some more detail for Sammy.

1. He is enlisted under the name Michael O'Neill on the 5th October 1932 as a regular for 7-5 years.

2. His date of birth is down as 15th February 1911

3. Discharged 1940.

4. Taken on again 8th July 1946.

5. Died 18th October 1948

Definitely worth applying for Michael's service record. I would be very interested to see what he was doing between 1940-1945.

sammy
22-10-2007, 20:51
This is just great,my mum and i are so greatful we will write to the MOD to get records.We too would love to know what he was doing between those dates

sammy
08-11-2007, 18:20
Hi my mum has been talking to my aunty who is the daughter of michael,she told her a little more about him.We now know that he was a seargent and had the nickname peggy,we also know that he died in a lorry crash and that his name is now on the wreham war memorial of fallen heroes

ap1
08-11-2007, 18:31
Thanks Sammy,

It quite important to establish if he was RWF when he died. At the moment he does not appear on the list of soldiers killed since 1945. If he was, we would ensure that error was rectified.

It is possible that when he had rejoined the army in 46, he joined another regiment or Corp. Have you applied for his death certificate yet?

sammy
08-11-2007, 18:37
No havent applied yet mum said she was going to do that,i really dont know if he joined another regiment or corp but from what my aunty said he never left the services

sammy
09-11-2007, 20:56
Hi we have found michael's details on the armed forces memorial appeal site.
He was born in Port Talbot 15/2/14 Served in the RWF and held the rank of Sgt untill his death on 18/10/48 He is buried at Munster Heath Cemetery in Germany (grave section 5 row E grave no. 7)
He is included on ARMED FORCES MEMORIAL IN STAFFORDSHIRE,
and THE ROLL OF HONOUR AT THE CHAPEL ROYAL HOSPITAL CHELSEA
I am pretty sure that this is him and if it is i also have his service number. 4189783

ap1
09-11-2007, 21:48
Well Done Sammy,

You can now apply for his service record.:biggrin:

ap1
10-11-2007, 16:06
Hi Sammy,

Michael O'Neill's details have now been added to the list of Royal Welchmen killed since WW2. We are still interested in his service though, the retired officer who collates all this information was serving roughly during that time, and cannot recall it, and it does not appear in any regimental documents of that period.

Im assuming your aware of the process of applying for Michael's service record?

sammy
10-11-2007, 16:19
We dont know how to apply for the his services records but we have another family member who is searching the family line too,so we will have to speak with him to see if he has it already

ap1
10-11-2007, 16:37
Ok,

Firstly here's the details of the cemetery.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=146003&mode=1

Regarding the service records, you need to download a SAR form from the Veterans agency site. Complete it, then send it to the MOD. All the required details are on some of the previous WW2 threads.

Keep us posted>

ap1
29-11-2007, 22:02
Just to keep you updated. We are trying to get a picture of Michaels grave at Munster Heath. Keep you posted.

sammy
02-12-2007, 21:32
That would be great if you could get a picture of michael's grave

sammy
13-03-2008, 22:45
Hi i dont know if this is of much help but i found out today that when michael died his wife and children were living at hightown barracks,now i know thats in wrexham but thats all i can find at the moment.

ap1
13-03-2008, 23:09
Hi Sammy,

Hightown Bks was the RWF Regimental Depot. All RWF men completed their basic training there.

We are still planning to obtain a picture of the grave. One of the forum members who lives in Germany has identified the location of the cemetery, which is some distance from his home address. He will be making that visit in the not too distant future. :-)

Have you applied for his service record yet?

Best wishes

sammy
22-03-2008, 17:12
Hi havent sent off for his records yet but we should be doing it soon.

ap1
28-06-2008, 09:52
I received this picture today from Steve Roberts 7017. Steve has taken the time to travel to the Munster Cemetery and obtain some photos of Michael O'Neils grave. The inscription at the foot of the headstone reads:


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/pooley2171/Friedhof004.jpg

Though absent you are very near.
Still loved, still missed.
Still very dear


The photo confirms that Michael was a Royal Welchman when he died. This is quite important, as his details had been lost in the midst of time, and without this thread, his details may have never have been reconnected to the regiment.

I would like to say a big thanks to Steve for taking the time to assist Sammy. He has provided me with an extensive group of photos which I will be passing on to her. The actions of individuals like Steve Roberts make membership of this website worthwhile.

Sammy if you can PM me your email address, for the remainder of Steve's pictures.

sammy
01-09-2008, 22:03
Hello i would just like to thank you for your help with everthing,my mum has been in contact with some family members and we have found out what michael's medals are.......the 1st one is the france and germany star,the 2nd is the defence medal,3rd is 1939-1945 star,battle of britain and the last is the war medal.
I have also found out michael was in the 1st battalion,dont now if this helps but i didnt know that till i saw a picture of michaels wifes grave and thats what it had on it

sammy
17-11-2008, 20:45
Hi me again.....my mum and i have been intouch with a family member who is also searching our family tree and he has given us some amazing photo's of michael and even some of this funeral.I was wondering where would be the best place to post them.We were also wondering why the photo's of the funeral were taken and who may have taken them.

ap1
18-11-2008, 04:54
Hi Sammy,

This thread keeps throwing up little surprises. This is a great Sgts picture. I'm wondering who the guy 2nd from left is. No doubt Richard and Lars are scrutinising his fairly hefty medal ribbons. Which suggest substantial pre war service(a better close up can be viewed in the gallery).

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/gallery/files/1/5/0/7/MJO_in_SGts_mess.jpg

Can you post the funeral pics please. We may identify others from the 1st Bn at that time.

With your permission Sammy, I think we will set up something suitable in the Vault about Michael once all the info is in. Perhaps a pen picture, with all the pics gathered in one place. What we really need now is his service record, so we can confirm which theatres he fought in.

Great Stuff.

sammy
18-11-2008, 11:34
Hi i cant seem to post the pics in here so i will post them the same way i have the other 2,hope that is ok.We also have a copy of his death certificate which i will post

Smokeyjoe
18-11-2008, 13:08
Hi Al,
What a great story I hope Sammy gets all that he wants from the research that you and others and Sammy have carried out.
It just goes to show how the forum has developed since it's inception, it is now a great asset to us all and the Regiment.
Well done everyone involved.
Regards,
Joe.

anitacorbett
18-11-2008, 16:53
Fantastic story. Well done everyone who was involved in it, you really are a great bunch! The pics are graet too, I know they are tinged with sadness but none the less fantastic family treasures.
Now I had an uncle in the Black Watch and I can't find his reg number .......!!!
Anita xx

5haron
18-11-2008, 18:54
Excellent. Hard work rewarded and recognised, well done to all involved :))

LarsA
18-11-2008, 19:26
Very interesting thread and photo!. Regarding the sergeants two row medal ribbon, I think he has at least the 39-45 star, Burma Star, Defence Medal, War Medal and a LSGC. May be one ribbon in front of the 39-45 star, but that is beyond my eyes to make out. Any other suggestions?
/Lars

sammy
18-11-2008, 20:19
I have some more photo's that im going to upload shortly but i would like to thank everyone who has helped me and my family finally learn about michael,so much of his past is still lost in time and we are at the moment waiting for his service records to come back to us and as soon as we get the i will post the infomation.

Again thank you all

sam x

Aled Roberts
18-11-2008, 21:15
I have squinted until I can squint no more ! :twitcy:

I agree with Lars.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal, War Medal & LSGC.

sammy
18-11-2008, 21:21
sorry if this doesnt go here but im having problems uploading the rest of my photo's,can anyone please help me....thank you

keith Jones 14
18-11-2008, 21:51
What a fantastic article well done to those involved.

ap1
18-11-2008, 22:22
I have squinted until I can squint no more ! :twitcy:

I agree with Lars.

39-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal, War Medal & LSGC.


Michael died in 48. So the Sgt pictured would have joined in the very early 1930's. Bearing in mind this is a 1st Bn pic, it's quite possible the guy has Dunkirk tucked under his belt. Bone question...but with regards to the 1st and 2nd Bn, is there any difference in the Far East medals they were awarded(I think Donbaik and Kohima were India)? Would both have received the Burma Star.