Memorial to the fallen Rhosllanerugog church.

[Philip Edwards]

I've been out and about researching my family tree in Rhos village looking for old family graves and came across an old WW 1 Memorial to the fallen who were members of the congregation, the church has been sold to a developer but the cemetery is still accessible by the public, the Memorial is in a very sorry state! Although it looks as if someone in the past has placed a armistice cross there. I'll try and download some photos I have taken, I can't believe the state of this church cemetery the amount of rubbish, it is an absolute disgrace.I don't know who would be responsible for the memorial, maybe the British legion or the Council. Phil Edwards.

[jones20]

Good luck with that Phil but I’ll think you will find that no one will accept responsibility

[Baconwallah]

I suspect the Church will be the official owner, irrespective of whether the congregation still exists. I believe that a custodian can be appointed who can then independently of the owner ensure proper maintenance and restoration if need be. From an official paper I understand that a War Memorial has the status of a Listed Building so it can't just be destroyed.

John

[Philip Edwards]

I'll try the local community council office see if they can advise on who is responsible for its maintenance, I'll keep you posted.

[Philip Edwards]

I've uploaded the photos to the 1914/18 gallery.

[Baconwallah]

Next step should be to copy the names before the memorial deteriorates any further. We can then start identifying them.

John

[Philip Edwards]

I'll try and do that as soon as I can and pass it on.Phil

[Philip Edwards]

Inscription: in honoured memory of the churchmen of this Parish who fell in the great war 1914 - 1918.John Richard Ballard, Samuel Davies, John Albert Edwards,William Fail, Harold Fisher, George Hooson, David Jones, Henry Lovatt Jones, Llewellyn Lloyd Jones, Allen Lewis, Charles Paddock,Albert Prescott, Edward Prince, Joseph Prodger, George Roberts, Horace Roberts, John Roberts, John William Roberts, William Roberts, Peter Stewart Rodger, Thornton Leonard James Shirley, Leonard Simpson, George Williams, and Charles William Wynne. Doesn't say which Regiment.Phil

[Baconwallah]

I'll see what I can find when I get home tomorrow evening, Phil. A challenge, as usual.

John

[LarsA]

This link to the Clwyd Family History Society willbe of help:

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/cofadeiladau/rhosllannerchrugog_wm.htm

ATB,

Lars

[welchboy]

Philip, Reference to the War Memorial. Are you referring to the one in Hill Street, Rhosllannerchrugog.

[Philip Edwards]

Hi, no I was referring to the one in the old Church Cemetery, I've now found that some of the people on the one in the old Cemetery are remembered on the one on Hill Street, but was really surprised by the state on the Church Cemetery, looking for family graves.

[LarsA]

This is from Clwyd webpage about the memorial in question:

”Several of those named on the main war memorial are also commemorated on another memorial in the grounds of St. John's parish church in Stryt y Gof.”

It would be a pity if this memorial would vanish, I for one would be willing to contribute to it’s relocation and upkeep as I have a medal group to one of the soldiers on it (Prodger).

ATB,

Lars

[welchboy]

.Philip : Reference your list of names. The following are remembered on the Hill Street Memorial.
John Richard Ballard MM., 15175 10th Bn RWF. 2. William Fail 5621 4th Bn RWF. 3. Harold Fisher RE. 184t Tunnelling Company. 4. George Hooson 13839 A Coy 10th B RWF

5. David Jones MM., 15903 13th Bn RWF 6. Henry Lovat Jones, Kings Royal Rifle Corps. 7 Llewellyn Lloyd Jones 37714 16th Bn RWF. 8 Allen Lewis 7135 4th Bn RWF.

9. Charles Paddock 200084/6111 2nd Bn RWF. 10. Edward Price Army Service Corps 11. Joseph Prodger 10063 1st Bn RWF. 12. George Roberts No Details

13. Horace Roberts 124050 RGA. 14 John Roberts 15919 13th Bn RWF. 15 John William Roberts No Details 16. William Roberts No Details

17. Peter S Rodger L/Cpl 200400 17th Bn RWF. 18. Thorton L.J. Shirley Canadian 87th Bn 19. Leonard Simpson 4/8720 59th Battalion Training Reserve.

20. George Williams 54060 2nd Bn. RWF. 21. Charles W. Wynne 7646 4th Bn RWF

Note William Fail is also remembered on the Pen y Cae War memorial. That I think leaves Samuel Davies and John Albert Williams details outstanding plus the no details

[welchboy]

Just a footnote to my post of 2326 hours. John Richard Ballard, Lt. Harold Fisher and Joseph Prodger are also remembered on the Johnstown War Memorial.

[Baconwallah]

Here's the lot, Phil.

John Richard Ballard, MM, Pte 15175, 10th RWF, KiA 18/08/1916
b. Liverpool, enl. Wrexham, resd. Ruabon
Thiepval Memorial

Samuel Thomas Davies, Pte 15147, 10th RWF, KiA 16/08/1916
b. Llandrillo, enl. Wrexham, resd. Colwyn Bay
Thiepval Memorial

John Albert Edwards, Cpl 291090, 1st Loyals, KiA 18/04/1918
Formerly 6460, 4th RWF
b. Rhosllanerchrugog, enl. Rhos, resd. Ponkey
Loos Memorial

William Fail, Pte 5621, 4th RWF, KiA 25/01/1915
b. Rhosllanerchrugog, enl. Rhos, resd. not given
Le Touret Memorial

Harold Fisher, Lt, 184th Tunnelling Coy RE, DoW 14/04/1918
Ebblinghem Military Cemetery

George Hooson, Pte 13839, 10th RWF, KiA 23/11/1915
b. Gresford, enl. Wrexham, resd. not given
Hedge Row French Cemetery

David John Jones, MM, Pte 15903, 13th RWF, KiA 19/09/1918 [photo]
b. Ruabon, enl. Rhos, resd. not given
Gouzeaucourt New British Cemetery
https://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6437&stc=1

Henry Lovatt Jones, Rfm R/9148, 13th KRRC attd 111 TMB, KiA 06/10/1916
b. Ruabon, enl. Ruabon, resd. Wrexham
Loos British Cemetery

Llewellyn Lloyd Jones, Pte 37714, 16th RWF, KiA 31/07/1917
b. Rhos, enl. Wrexham, resd. not given
Dragoon Camp Cemetery

Allen Lewis, Pte 7135, 4th RWF, KiA 09/05/1915
b. Rhosllanerchrugog, enl. Rhosllanerchrugog, resd. not given
Le Touret Memorial

Charles Paddock, 200084, 2nd RWF, KiA 22/06/1917
b. Ellesmere, enl. Rhos, resd. not given
Croisilles British Cemetery

Albert Prescott, Dr 6448, 4th RWF, KiA 25/01/1915
b. not given, enl. Rhos, resd. not given
Le Touret Memorial

Edward Prince, Shoeing Smith TS/3654, RASC, DoW 17/05/1918
b. Wrexham, enl. Wrexham, resd. Johnstown
Aire Communal Cemetery

Joseph Prodger, Pte 10063, 1st RWF, KiA 21/10/1914
b. Bangor, enl. Wrexham, resd. not given
Harlebeke New British Cemetery

George Roberts
POSSIBLY George Roberts, Cpl 362054, RAMC, Died 14/02/1918
b. Summerhill, enl. Chester, resd. Ruabon
Ramleh War Cemetery

Horace Roberts, Gnr 124050, 16th Siege Bty RGA, Died 13/07/1918
b. Rhos, enl. Wrexham, resd. Johnstown
Vignacourt British Cemetery

John Roberts, Pte 15919, 13th RWF, KiA 11/07/1916
b. Ruabon, enl. Rhos, resd. not given
Dantzig Alley British Cemetery

John William Roberts
POSSIBLY John Roberts, Pte 11035, 5th KSLI, KiA 07/08/1915
b. not given, enl. Oswestry, resd. Rhos
Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial

William Roberts
Unidentifiable

Peter Stewart Rogers, L/Cpl 200400, 17th RWF, KiA 04/11/1918
b. Ponkey, Enl. Rhosllanerchrugog, resd. not given
Englefontaine British Cemetery

Thornton Leonard James Shirley, Pte 178017, 87th Can Inf (Quebec R), KiA 21/10/1916
b. Barton, enl. not given, resd, not given
Vimy Memorial

Leonard Simpson, Pte 4/8720, 59th TR Bn, Died 03/03/1917
b. Ruabon, enl. not given, resd, not given.
Bodelwyddan (St. Margaret) Churchyard

George Williams, Pte 54060, 2nd RWF, KiA 26/11/1917
b. not given, enl. Wrexham, resd. not given
Tyne Cot Cemetery

Charles William Wynne, Pte 7646, 4th RWF, DoW 23/10/1916
b. not given, enl. Wrexham, resd. not given
Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery

Hope this helps.

John

[welchboy]

William Fail Pte. 5621 was born at Rhos in 1890, by 1891 the family were living a 1 Kitchen St. Chester. 1901 found him and his widowed father boarding at the Bricklayers Arms, Wrexham.
His residence recorded at the time of his death was 3 Jersey Street, Clock Face, St. Helens, Lancashire, together with his wife Sarah Ann Fail.
He is remembered on the St. Helens Roll of Honour.

[welchboy]

Albert Prescott 6448 ( KIA Givenchy 25.1.1915, on the morning of the 25th the Battalion trenches and villiage came under heavy artillery and trench mortar fire from 0700 hours for 2 hours then were subjected to German infantry assaults, later in the day the Battalion was engaged in a successful counter attack which drove the Germans back. Interesting from my own perspective that my Grandfather was wounded on or about this date with the 4th Bn. )
Albert entered France n 6.11.1914 and as awarded 1914 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal. Cannot find a enlistment date but as a rough guide only. My Grandfather's number was 6876 and he enlisted on 20.3.1912. At the time of his death Albert was a L/Corporal, and his parents lived in Australia Street, Rhos.
A sequel to his death is that his brother Pte.William Prescott, 15926, 13th Bn., RWF., born Ruabon, enlisted Rhos of Cynlas Street, Rhos was KIA., a year to the day of his brother's death, 25.1.1916. He entered France on 1.12.915.

[welchboy]

Phil , A little further back ground information :

George Hooson 13839 Residence at time of death 22 Malvern Road, Moordown, Bournmouth, husband of Mable Kate

David John Jones MM, 26 years of age, parents lived at 85 Bank Street, Ponciau

Llewellyn Lloyd Jones 37714 age 22 Residence Hall Street Rhos

Allen Lewis 7135 age 22, killed Battle of Aubers Ridge, Residence 11 Campbell Street Ruabon

Charles Paddock 6111 / 200084 Enlisted Wrexham, to Infantry Base Depot, to 4th Bn as 6111, returned IBD., to 2nd Bn as 200084.

Joseph Prodger 10063 Born Bangor-is-y-Coed, Landed France 6.10.1914 Rank on death L/Cpl. Named on family grave St. Deniol & St. Merceila Church Yard, Marchweil

John Roberts 15919 Landed France 1.12.1915

Peter S. Rogers 200400 LCpl. Enlisted 8.4.1913, 4th Bn, and went to France with this Bn. On leave from Bn from 3.8.1917 to 13.8.1917, returned from UK., to Base Depot and from there to 17th Bn. Wounded 15.9.1916 in accident. Rodgers with other soldiers were priming hand grenades at a bomb depot when Pte Evans 4th RWF., having just primed one, placed it in a box when the handle flew off due to a faulty pin.
Grenade exploded wounding Rodgers slightly in the buttocks, plus 3 others soldiers and 2 horses. All four soldiers returned to duty the same day after treatment.
Residence Chapel Street, Ponciau. ( His service record survives but in very poor condition )

Leonard Simpson 4/8720 Enlisted 7.2.1917 Wrexham, 9.2.1917 to 59th Training Battalion, Kimmel Bay. Admitted Kimmel Bay Military Hospital 20.2.1917 died 3.3.1917 cause pneumonia.
Residence Brandy Cottage, Ruabon.

George Williams 7707/ 54060. to IBD., as 7707 then 2nd Bn as 54060. Residence Chapel Street, Ponciau

Charles William Wynne 7646 Residence 27 Pant Hill, Rhos ( on medal index card shown as Charles Wynne )

Hope this helps with your research and gives you an insight into those names on the memorial.

[welchboy]

Thornton L. J. Shirley : 178017 Canadian Infantry, born Manchester, England 13.10.1893. Residence 482 Montreal Street, Montreal City, Canada. Attested 6.12.1915 at Montreal, Canada into the Canadian Grenadier Guards, Overseas Battalion. Occupation on enlistment given as book keeper.

Next of Kin : Mother Emily Jane Shirley. Address : Leesewood House, Rhos, Wrexham.

Lt. Harold Fisher, 184th Tunnelling Company, R.E. Born 1892 Ruabon Son of Seth and Mary Fisher and one of 5 brothers.

Residence in 1901 and 1911 Bangor Road, Johnstown. ( family home )

Occupation in 1911 Mining Student.

Residence at time of death was the family home, The " Laurels ", Johnstown

[welchboy]

Discovered some further information on Private Thornton Leonard James Shirley, Canadian Grenadier Guards. KIA., 21st/22nd October 1916 aged 21.
He was the eldest son of the late Thornton Shirley of Manchester and Mrs. E.J. Shirley of Leeswood House, Rhos. Educated at King's School Chester and Ruabon Grammer School.
In 1913 he sailed for Canada to take up a position in the offices of The Canadian Pacific Railway at Fort William. On the outbreak of war he enlisted with the G. Guards Overseas Battalion, finishing his training in the U.K. He was a member of the Rhos Liberal League.

[welchboy]

Found this information with regards to the Memorial. On there are fours brothers sons of Mr and Mrs George Roberts of Bent's Cottages, Ponkey, they had 6 sons who served in WW1 only 2 survived and of the 2 Ernest Roberts was gassed.
The 4 who died were 1. Private John (Jack) Roberts 15919 A Coy, 13th Bn. RWF, KIA 11.7.1916, 2 William Roberts KIA April 1917 no other details known, other than Bent's Cottages Address. 3 Private Peter Stewart Rogers / Roberts ( Step Son ) 17th Bn., RWF, DOWs 4.11.1918 having been gassed and wounded, at the time of his death was married to Margaret Jayne and residing at 4 Emlyn Terrace, Chapel Street, Ponkey. 4. Private 200499 1/4th Bn., RWF, George Roberts, DOWs 2.2.1919 ( George is buried in Rhos Cemetery Ref N 2 )