Fusilier veterans buried at Llanbadrig, Anglesey

[Clive Hughes]

While searching for something else in the Welsh newspapers Online website, I came across the following. A correspondent had written to the North Wales Chronicle 29 September 1894 page 5 to draw attention to several Army veterans buried at Llanbadrig Churchyard near Amlwch, Anglesey.

The church is a little hidden gem, with early Christian monuments inside. It is possibly the oldest St.Patricks Church outside Ireland and perched on the edge of a sea cliff. A Victorian benefactor who had converted to Islam arranged the interior decoration! It was used as one of the scenes in Demi Moore's spooky movie Half Light in the 1990s. The parish it serves, Llanbadrig, includes the small port of Cemaes.

Anyway, the writer stated that there was recently buried at Llanbadrig a Hugh Jones, an old Army pensioner of the 23rd RWF, who had served in India and the Crimea, and held "medals for good conduct and gallantry". I checked the church Burial register online and indeed, a Hugh Jones of Ty Capel Bethlehem, Cemaes was buried on 19 September 1894 aged 58 (so born ca. 1836). As an 18-year-old in 1854 he might well have served in the Crimea.

Then it went on to say that 30 years previously, another Crimean veteran of the 23rd RWF named John Jones had also been buried there. He proved a little less certain to identify, but after checking to and fro around 1864 I did find one John Jones of Penrhyn, buried 5 September 1863 aged 45 (so born ca.1818).

And then the writer added that the churchyard also contained the remains of another John Jones (note: no regiment stated), buried "about 49 years ago" (so around 1845). This one had allegedly served all through the Peninsular War with Wellington, and was wounded in the thigh at Waterloo 1815, after which he was discharged. He lived in Cemaes for years afterwards. A check on the burials 1842-62 only threw up two likely John Joneses: one from Cemaes buried 29 March 1844 aged 50 (born ca.1795), which seemed a tad young for a Peninsular veteran unless he was a boy drummer at first?? The other also from Cemaes was buried 10 April 1841 aged 52 (born ca.1789).

The correspondent thought the number of veterans was noteworthy, and suggested putting up a commemorative stone to their memory. I don't think it happened. In any case, I'm recording this here in case anyone feels like noting the fact or carrying out further research on these men.

Clive

[Hywyn]

Have you got access to Findmypast Clive?***

This looks a likely contender for Hugh Jones.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f2006%2f055%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo97%2f2006%2f418349&highlights=%22%22

Curiously Crimea Service is no listed in his overseas service list but further down it says he has Crimea Medals! Also, he enlisted in 1858! I might have missed something though as I haven't thoroughly read them.


***I'll send them to you if you haven't.

Edit: Seen it now. He had former Coldstream Guard service reckoned towards his pension.

RWF = 1858 to 1877 but got 21 yrs pensionable service........I think.

[Clive Hughes]

That's good Hywyn - might well be 137 Pte. Hugh Jones. I'd agree he earned the Crimea with Sebastopol clasp & Turkish Crimea medal with the Coldstream Guards, then transferred over to the 2nd Battalion 23rd in 1858 aged 22. Doesn't seem to have been with the RWF in the Indian Mutiny; but he later earned the Ashanti War medal with clasp "Coomassie" for the 1873-74 campaign. And a Long Service & Good Conduct medal to boot, before being discharged 1877. Nice group, wherever it is!

Born Llanrhyddlad, Anglesey and intending to reside at Holyhead after discharge.

I've also now found in Ancestry's "Chelsea Registers of Soldiers who Served in Canada 1743-1882" a discharge for a Private John Jones, born Llanfaethlu, Anglesey and enlisted for the 23rd at Stilton, Cambridgeshire on 25 August 1807 aged 26. Discharged 22 Feb. 1827 being "old and worn out" aged about 45; character Excellent. His 19 and a half years service was however increased by 2 years because he had been present at Waterloo. I don't have the book on the Napoleonic Fusiliers and if he died in the early 1840s he would have no medal entitlement excepting Waterloo.

Waterloo: an online Roll shows only two such men present with the 23rd Regt - a Jon (?Jonathan) Jones in Capt. Hawtyn's Company Grenadiers; and a John Jones in Capt. Harrison's (3rd) Company. There were however 29 other John Joneses present; possibly plus two others who were killed or died of wounds - I'm not certain.

Clive

[ap1]

There was also a John Jones in No 4 Company (Capt George Browne). Here's the entry from the book covering all 3 names.

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4412&stc=1

[Hywyn]

That John Jones from Denbigh has papers.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f0429%2f091%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo97%2f429%2f894294

Discharge 1823 as a consequence of...." being old and worn out and gunshot wound through both thighs at Pamphlona and for being deaf and impaired vision of the left eye"

The being shot through both thighs was 'oh, yes and by the way..! !! <grin>

It seems there was a Siege of Pamphlona in 1813 and 1823. From what I see in RRRWF Vols 1 and 2, RWF were at the former.

[Hywyn]

Here's that John Jones from Llanfaethlu Clive. Died 26 3 1844 (page 2) so fitting in nicely with the burial you quote for 29 3 1844 in the opener.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f0429%2f090%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo97%2f429%2f894293&highlights=%22%22

[Clive Hughes]

Yes, that's him Hywyn. He isn't one of those listed by Al is he? Is it possible he transferred into the 23rd post-Waterloo or is there a simpler explanation?

Clive

[Hywyn]

I'm not sure what you mean Clive. I'm a bit outside my comfort zone with these. The docs definitely say he enlisted into RWF in 1807 and he got 2yrs pension for Waterloo. Yet, as you say he's not on the list provided by Al.
Of that list
John Jones (1) is the Denbigh one. Docs upthread

Jonathan Jones is this one
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f0429%2f095%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo97%2f429%2f894298

Having problems finding the Carmarthen one.

Edit: Further thought. 'Our' Llanfaethlu John Jones enlisted day after the Carmarthen one and both same age. I wonder if the wrong John Jones has been put in that list? Did they have numbers then? Is the enlistment book in existence do you know?

[ap1]

The register is available "The Descriptive Register 1807-1842"

[Hywyn]

Thanks Al
I assume you mean at the RWF Archives. It'd be interesting to see the entries against the two John Jones in contention i.e the Carmarthen one and 'our' one from Anglesey.

I'm also assuming that the list you quote above is of those RWF who served at Waterloo (I think I saw a similar booklet at Caernarfon County Archives some time ago). Do you have its publishing details, when compiled etc i.e how long after Waterloo. Given it provides discharge date it's obviously not in the years immediately after.

[Hywyn]

Maybe the book I saw at Caernarfon County Archives was a copy of this one on sale at RWF Museum (and probably copy at the RWF Archives?)

http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/pu.html

(7th book down if the link doesn't open with it expanded)

I see it contains:
Rolls of Officers, NCO's & Men, by companies at Waterloo. (which doesn't look to be the format of the list upthread)

The Waterloo Casualty Rolls.

Biographical notes on Officers, NCO's & Men present at Waterloo. (which might be the list upthread)

NCO's & Men Medal Rolls. Military General Service Medal. With biographical notes.

Anyone got a copy of this book to hand? Not a primary source like the Descriptive Register but nonetheless could throw some light for us.


Edited

[ap1]

Thats what I scanned from Hywyn. The Holmes/Kirby Book.

I don't have FMP, so possibly i'm only seeing part of the story. Tell me what I'm looking for specifically, I will have another look.

Cheers

Al

[Hywyn]

Sorry Al. Thought you had.

I'm rusty on how to do attachments. Hopefully 'our' Jones will be displayed below.





edit: I see it worked. I'll address the others later.

[Hywyn]

The Denbigh John Jones (hopefully)

[Hywyn]

To recap then:

The Holmes/Kirby database shows only two John Jones with RWF at Waterloo. At least, they do so on that list in the book.

Records found for their 'John Jones, Denbigh'

No records readily found for their 'John Jones, Carmarthen' (Not in itself evidence he wasn't of course. Might be search method error/misindexing etc)

We have primary source info of one not on their list, lets say 'John Jones Anglesey' plus anecdotal evidence of a RWF Waterloo veteran buried on Anglesey (Clives' opener etc) which matches most of the primary source info.

John Jones Anglesey and John Jones Carmarthen enlisted within a day of each other at same age.

Query. Will the original Register at RWF Archives throw light on whether these two have been mixed up in the Holmes/Kirby book.

[ap1]

Query. Will the original Register at RWF Archives throw light on whether these two have been mixed up in the Holmes/Kirby book.

I would say yes! Depending on the readability of the page. The book gives name, occupation, given age, enlistment date, parish. Worth a look.

[ap1]

Interestingly in the book, there is also a Peter Jones of Llanfihangel, Cardigan who is also attested on the 25th Aug 1807. Aged 22yrs, served in the Light Company, date of discharge not given. Trade - Hatter.

[Hywyn]

Discharged 1825. Did 17 yrs plus 2 yrs for Waterloo. I'll attach them if you want them.

For the avoidance of any misunderstanding on who'll do it will you be able to sort that Archive look up?

edit: I don't know when the next time I'm over that way.

[Hywyn]

This one look likely to be John Jones Carmarthen on that list. Discharged 1812 therefore did not serve Waterloo. Not conclusive given how common the name is but.....

Main points from list with details from discharge doc in bracket

Born St Peter's Carmarthen (Yes)
trade = weaver (yes)
Attested 24 8 1807 (25 8 1807)
Age 26 (23)


Re previous search for him, 1) the age is slightly out 2) I was searching attested date i. e 1807. He is indexed under disch date of 1812. Nontheless I should have picked him up on John Jones/ Carmarthen trawl. Ah well.

edit: there are two docs but I haven't sussed out how to clear my attachment limit. Everything needed is on this one I think.

[ap1]

It will be Clive or myself, we are there most weeks and know where the register is.

Cheers

Al

[Hywyn]

Cheers Al. I was posting the last one at the same time as you in case you miss it.

[Jerry B]

I visited the church last year whilst walking that section of the Welsh coast path, but only in passing and I did not know of any RWF burials when I was there or I would have taken photos if the headstones were still extant.

It truly is in a stunning location.

[Clive Hughes]

Will have a go when next in (not this week sadly) unless Al does so first.

Just for clarity, the original newspaper account doesn't specifically say that the Waterloo John Jones served with 23rd RWF: the two Crimea men did. There's a chance he was indeed a Fusilier, but that's why I noted the existence of the other 29 John Johneses on the overall Waterloo roll.

Clive

[Hywyn]

Noted Clive.

Although there's a lot pointing to the burial being of 'our' man I'm throwing a bit of doubt in now although I must say it doesn't sway me much from thinking this is our man.

I see that year birth derived from the age etc provided on the discharge papers does not tie in with the one from the burial book age.

Enlisted 1807 aged 26 = ca1781 Mind you it also says in the descriptive on discharge (item 8th) in 1826 he's about 40, therefore = ca1786) whilst the frontspiece of the document, when folded, states 45, therefore ca1781

Burial book. Died 1844 aged 50 = ca 1895

Looking at the burial entry, with the full advantage of trying to iron out an anomaly and therefore giving it a higher degree of scutiny, I rather fancy that the age is 60. At first glance it does look like a 5 but look further down the page at Margaret Williams.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fwal%2f004393978%2f00365&parentid=gbprs%2fd%2f919065539%2f1&highlights=%22%22

Above is link to burial book. I can't attach the relevant page as I do not see a way of getting rid of the other files in my Upload Manager and I am at my limit.

[Clive Hughes]

I had a look at the volume in the Archives today, but despite having a couple of men who enlisted as early as 1807, the document is headed "Description Book of the 23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Weedon Barracks 1st September 1835". It covers men who were serving in 1835, and runs to 1842.

Clive

[sixties]

Thanks for that, keep them coming.