View Full Version : Staying in the EU
Anyone got any views really need to see more business leaders on TV
steve bird
09-01-2016, 20:02
I don't think we need business leaders views or their opinions there are far to many scar mongering about doom and gloom if we leave the EU I do hope the young people who have never had the chance to vote on the EU vote for leaving. the UK are doomed if we stay in we only receive half or less the monies we pay in interference from the EU courts we had our own human rights that worked well enough the great man sir Winston Churchill was one of the founders our boarder control is fine out side of EU interference sorry rabbiting on you only need your own veiw your opinion no body Else's matter
Sooner were Out the better I reckon. That way we could at least Close our Borders to anymore of these Undesirables coming in from Africa/Eastern Europe. You see on tv all the Gangs of Shoplifters they pick up in London etc are nearlly all Romanians etc. Get rid of them all I say. Braz
keithwill38
09-01-2016, 22:33
Think you will find we have closed borders now but they still getting in
steve bird
10-01-2016, 11:25
Yep they will still get in no matter what yes they will continue to try and get in but our government do not have the balls to deport them they the people in the seats of power are afraid of being called raciest just like Mr Enoch powell
Joe Cartwright
10-01-2016, 15:48
The EU was and is a pipe dream, and it's all going up in smoke! You only have to look at Frau Merkel's open door policy and the events on New Years Eve in Cologne to see the result of her idea! The sooner we are out and start to govern our own country without their interference the better!
Bricoates
10-01-2016, 18:29
UK border threat: France to build mega-camp for refugees for first time in 13 years"BRITAIN could face another wave of illegal migrants after France announced plans to build a second migrant camp on its northern coast."What next, build a Boat yard next door? If we vote to stay out France will do what they always wanted and let in the migrants and since we would not be a member of the EU there would be no Court to complain to, by all means have a decent number of migrants, genuine Asylum seekers, not the once that have jumped on the bandwagon pretending to be from a conflict area, Someone walked through the Tunnel from France and was given Asylum last week, that sends a signal, what happends if 2,000, in one wave, was to walk through, there is no gate to close, or our "Friendly" neighbour, France, fills a train and sends it over, which ever way we vote we cant win on the migrant issue.
Hi..
The Migrant issue is just a relatively small part of the issue here. The much bigger problem is Trade. As members of the EU we as a nation can trade within a set of very favorable terms with the other EU countries which is a very large marketplace. If we leave the EU that will cease, and as a Non EU country we would have to renegotiate new deals on terms which would not be as favorable. The USA have already stated that they would not be prepared to deal favorably with a non EU Britain. As we no longer have the Commonwealth to fall back on, i believe that we would , in a very short time, find ourselves in a much, much worse position than we are now. Mind you it might solve the migration problem.. as no one would want to come here.
ivor
steve bird
11-01-2016, 09:48
Yes a big problem for us all to decide on our future as a country to remain with a defuncted EU who are more like a dictatorship living under threat from the French and mist the other members and stay Americans 51st state, or be our own people to run our own affairs how we see fit all we need is a strong government not what we have just now.
Bricoates
11-01-2016, 11:01
Mind you we can all pick and choose, this is one,
The importance of the European Union as the UK's main trading partner appears to be dwindling as the share of UK goods exported to the region fell to a record low in April.Just 45.1pc of the goods that the UK exported that month went to the EU, down from 52pc in the previous year.
The data showed that Britain's overall trade deficit, including both goods and services, narrowed dramatically in April. The proportion of the UK's goods that are exported to the European Union has been shrinking since the early 2000s, when it accounted for around two thirds of total UK goods exports.Martin Beck, an economist at Oxford Economics, said: "The latest trade data showed a further decline in the EU's importance as a market for UK exports."He concluded that by 2020 the deficit , at this trend, will be under 40pc"
hi..
an interesting set of figures..But figures can be twisted to suit a persons point of view.. ok the % of trade with the EU has fallen.. but it does not mention that there has been, i believe, a decline in Britain's manufacturing industry.with a number of traditionally British firms moving their bases to the old Eastern European countries to reduce the Cost of Manufacture . It could be said that the reduction British trade in EU trade is due to this. Also what it not mentioned is market competition. at one time the term ''Made in China'' was a possible indication of poor quality goods. that is no longer the case. Chinese goods are now of a good quality. but are produced much cheaper. so can claim a larger % of the market. I believe that to leave the EU would, if the price of Ex EU British goods increased it would reduce the Market % even further. Whilst i agree there are a number of issues within the EU it is not only UK that has problems.
ivor
I agree with the above but I have read that not being part of the EU opens up the markets to India and China for us which at present is restricted if you are a members of the EU.
Hi
while i agree with the above, i am not sure that we would gain any benefit from them. The problem is that although they appear to be potentially Vast Markets.are they ?. Yes they have Huge market potential..on paper. i think that a large % of the people are very poor, certainly in comparison with the West, so would they be able to afford Imported Goods, especially if they are higher priced than locally produced items.
The next problem is Steel. the UK no longer has any Steel industry. it was sold off to India,(Tata) which has now shut down most of the industry. Therefore we have to Buy Steel from India, or elsewhere. which is an added expense. So when you can no longer control the price of a commodity, you are at the mercy of market trends. The reason for the nosedive in British Steel has been the Over Production by the Cheaper Manufacturers. in the Belief of a Continued high demand from the Chinese market. This downturn in the Chinese Manufacturing industry, which possibly should have been foreseen. Has caused, and will continue to cause, major problems for some time. I read the other day that the Chinese stock markets lost about 7% of its value in a matter of hours forcing them to close.
I think, as a member of the EU, we may be shielded from some of these problems. But as an Independent Manufacturer with high production costs, i think we would have a serious struggle to compete with the EU, for any increased share of any Global Market.
ivor
stevevale
13-01-2016, 18:42
If you watched the debate between Farage/Jones you will see one confident leader and one scaremonger.
steve bird
13-01-2016, 19:00
Missed it so who is who ?????
hi.
I didn't watch that debate and i wont watch any politician on telly. The problem is, as i said before, figures and data and stuff can be and frequently is, Twisted to suit the particular persons point of view.. For instance, The most misused one is the Unemployment Figures. it is headlined '' 6% of working age Population on Dole or Benefit'' Big headlines. but would ''94% of population in Work'' have the same effect, i doubt it. It is Very Difficult to make any sort of Decision based on The Media as they all have their own particular Crusade.
My own Personal Feeling is, we should stay in the EU. We are in an age where the Multi National Companies Rule,sadly. and as a small island nation the UK does not have the Influence we once had, since we gave up the Commonwealth. So do we want to be a small fish swimming alone with the dangers of Sharks or the Financial Markets, or would we be better off as a member of a ''School'' where we have the protection of larger Numbers. I know what my choice is..
ivor
I'm not a fan of where the EU is currently, but I can see the validity of Ivor's comments in favour of staying in, they make very real sense. The problem is that it's been a huge experiment, run by faceless, unelected bureaucrats, and is not the trading group that we originally joined. I think anyone who votes purely on the immigration issue is making a huge mistake, there's a lot more to the in/out question than that subject. Also migrants/immigration is a developing story, Merkal is now under real pressure, following the Cologne incidents, Shengen is suspended following the Paris attacks and with more on the way, is likely to be even further watered down. So it's a changing narrative, but of course an important part of the debate, but not the only aspect of membership.
Also, World Wars. My parents generation were obsessed with this subject, as were theirs and rightly so. The longest period since 1945, when one of the big players in Europe hasn't been attacking another, something easily overlooked, but a very real fear throughout the 20th Cent, which is partly where the Common Market came from.
I'm one of those "undecideds" and I'm looking forward to Feb, when the negoiations are finished and the politicians are then open to proper scrutiny. If you are really interested in this subject, and want to see the politicians sweat, catch "The Daily Politics" every lunchtime on BBC2 with Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn…two of the finest analysts/interviewers , for my money, they're worth the licence fee alone.
Bricoates
14-01-2016, 11:46
"an interesting set of figures..But figures can be twisted to suit a persons point of view."
The figures on the fall in export ar facts, the reason for that is another story as you rightly pointed out Ivor, I have not seen the debate yet, I can see one scaremonger like Enoch Powell, right or wrong, the other, not a confident leader, well not on past performance anyway, Recently we have seen Cameron getting promises of large investments from India and China, Country's outside the EU.
Baconwallah
14-01-2016, 11:56
The EU will not protect you from the rule of the multinationals, Ivor. On the contrary, if the current top secret EU-US trade negociations lead to an agreement, the multinational;s will rule the EU. Officially.
See http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html
John
Just read in papers that the Amount of Benefits paid out to all these Immigrants will not be made known to the British Public as they fear it will make people vote against staying in Europe. Lord I dread to think what it must be, and to think our Pensioners would be better off in Prison. Braz
peterlansley
14-01-2016, 13:46
It seems to me it's the old adage of dammed if we do and dammed if we don't. Parliament should come clean over the costs for or against,otherwise how are we mushrooms going to vote in a referendum?
Hi Guy's.
First. John, i fully agree with you re the Multi Nationals, and with regard to this deal with the US, if it is similar to the recently signed Asia, Pacific Deal then that might be the U.S controlling EU trade. which should be avoided at all costs.
Now, i have been doing some digging. How many of you have come across.. E.F.T.A. ( ref...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association ) this came as a bit of a surprise to me. although i was aware of it i did not know that UK was a founder member in 1960. only leaving to join the EU in 1973. So if we pull out of Europe are we going to snuggle up with EFTA instead.
It appears that the formation of EFTA coincided with our reducing influence in the Commonwealth. so at No Time in the recent past has the UK really been in a ''stand alone '' position. Which raises the Question.. ''Can We as, a now very much minor manufacturing country, be able to Stand Alone''. bear in mind that ''The Special Relationship'' between the UK and the US may no longer be in place. To me this could be the ''Stuff of Nightmares''.
I think there has to be a lot of very serious Questions asked of our politicians with regard to ''what happens, where do we go. after EU'' as the consequences for us mushrooms could be very costly..
ivor
jungle1810
14-01-2016, 15:59
Hello all,
As a point of interest the first family Cameron interviewed, had a mother and 10 children. Now if this is counted as one family how about the fact that if 20,000 similar families are let into the U K we will have 200,000 children 20.000 mothers and if one father is allowed to join them we will have 20,000 fathers, now if we allow the fathers to bring in 3 wives this total comes to 280,000 people. I have not heard what Obama thinks of this fact which is just as well because the U S Senate does not ask the British public to comment on how the U S of A is run, the American policy which led to the start of the THE AMERICAN WAR OF INDEPENDENCE is "No representation no taxes" the The E U are running two parliaments Brussels and Strasbourg and move all the kit and caboodle every time they move offices. Now for the Common Agriculture Market the C A P takes 150 billion Euros to run. Of this princely sum France gets 17% The U K gets 7% as a point of interest the total Eu wage bill comes out of this pot as well not bad for an UNELECTED ASSEMBLY, the U K contribute 55 million EUROS a day to be able to be PARTNER OF THE E U. The E U has never had it's statements of accounts written off in 20 years this is an illegal form of accountancy. Now we come to the reason why the EUROPHILES in the U K Parliament like the E U. The E U cover over 78% of our laws and way of life, so taking this to it,s logical conclusion it means that our whole form of governance from The house of commons and the upper house only do 22% of the work that is done on the U K.s behalf but still get the same money (WAGES) for a lot less work. The U K has the second largest form of government in the world beaten only by CHINA a country of some 1,2 billion people. We have over 800 in the house of Lords and only about 380 seats
The house of commons have 350, Wales have 30 seats in the Welsh Senate for some 3 million people, so how about if we stay in E U cut all our parliamentarians by 78% with a suitable reduction in their wages If any trouble occurs in Germany or France why can they alter or stop it with out a full E U meeting to ratify their actions which thee U K cannot manage to do. PRO BONO PUBLICO, regards R B D
Hi.
Don, an interesting post but you are doing the same as the politicians. you quote a possible figure of about 250.000 Dependents. I am ignoring the wage earners for the minute. This is a lot of potential for the need for financial support.But you are not taking into account the 150.000 Emigrating from the UK per year, or the roughly 500,000 deaths per year which in recent years has Exceeded the Birth Rate. Immigration (legal) runs at about 250,000 so the actual population level doesn't vary a great deal. The Problem is Jobs. the Unemployed figure for 3 months to Oct 15 is 1.71 Million.with probably 500,000 job vacancies. it does not need a spin doctor to realize that at least 1,000,000 people are Not going to get a job.a large Number of the Unemployed would be Worse off financially if they took a job, which is totally ridiculous, But these Low Paid Jobs will be filled by your 20,000 migrants because the wage level for them is good.
But this is Not the Fault of the EU. History tells us the real fault. Don , you must be aware of what happened in the 1950's. as a result of WW2 the Male population of the UK was not sufficient to fill the jobs so what did the Government do.They encouraged Immigration from the Caribbean. this is where the problem began. these people would work for a lot less than UK workers. because of their life style, they were even able to send money home. This culture of Low wages has continued ever since especially in the Railway industry and the NHS.
which is one of the reasons that the NHS is in difficulties.
ivor
jungle1810
15-01-2016, 15:06
Hello every one and Ivor,
You are right about the West Indian migrants. The men were wanted to drive the buses the distaff side were required to work in our N H S service. These people had a hard initiation to the U K. Now Turkey was expected to be able to join the E U in a decade or so. The population of Turkey is 72,907, 000 people. Turkey as a land mass is also according to 2 sources 95 % or even 87% as being in Asia. Turkey is 99% Muslim.Soon the most wisest teacher will be unable to sort out where Asia begins and Europe ends. Can we expect to see Russia relocated as a European classification soon.?????
Regards to all R B D
Hi all.
Err, Don. have a look at this map. http://www.diercke.com/kartenansicht.xtp?artId=978-3-14-100790-9&seite=36&id=17469&kartennr=1
prior to 1914 Russia was part of Europe. I was aware of this as at one time before we sold our house i collected old School Atlases.Fascinating things. especially the early ones..
ivor
Think the special relationship will still exist only because the yanks know our troops are the only ones in NATO they can rely on
I am still undecided on this thinking that I would watch the programmes coming on TV so I sat down to watch the PM on sky last night I listen to what I could when the sky presenter and Cameron insisted on talking over each other then waited for their chosen audience to ask their questions what a waste of time.One of the questions asked was would Boris Johnson make a good PM can someone tell me what's that got to do with staying in or out of eu followed by another question by a lady about bursaries again what's that got to do with the Eu.What a waste of time
steve bird
03-06-2016, 19:31
Hello all, okay here are my little reasons for leaving the EU but I think the remains will win the day thanks to large numbers of migrants we have long waiting time to see a doctor I think MPs jump the queue we have long waiting for our hospitals our MPs jump the queue our schools are at bursting point our children and grandchildrens education is suffering long term our MPs children jump the queue and go private we send far to much money in family allowance abroard why will it be hard out side the EU well yes can or will we survive out side the EU yes I think we will have a better future out side the EU our children and grandchildren will have better futures out side the EU at the end of a hard transition just saying is all thanks
Gwyn Nicholas
04-06-2016, 09:45
I have listened to many of the arguments, from politicians, trade experts, fiscal experts to small business owners and farmers. They all have views that they see as being the result of a Brexit. They differ, so who is right, who is wrong? One thing is clear, the EU has become an institution that is unregulated, unconstitutional, overbearing and autocratic. They are unwilling to change/reform and dismiss every effort to get them to do so.
This "Powerhouse" is not what the original plan for European unity was about, because it has lost its way by having literally no one to answer to. In short, it has become a dictatorship albeit by a group rather than an single individual. If we are truly a Democracy, the EU should not exist in its current form and the sooner it is either reformed or disbanded the better.
I hear the argument, that somehow we will be the pariahs of Europe if we leave. I don't believe it. Indeed I believe that should we vote to leave, the French and indeed the Germans (who are already making noises) will seek their own referendum. Our leaving whilst causing us some discomfort in the short term, may lead to the reform of the EU/common market, that in principle, I am in favour of. If not, it may just be the end of it altogether.
Of all the problems and reasons for in and out, for me it is a question of returning to a proper democracy, where those who govern whether here or in the EU, are answerable to the people.
Thanks Gwyn,
An excellent precis of why I feel I need to vote out. Over the last few days I've been mulling over the potential pitfalls of Brexit for my daughters and grandchildren, knowing my gut-feeling was to walk away, but with potential to bottle it on referendum day and vote "In". But you're so right, this grouping is not what we joined, although Heath and his cohorts knew it, they never told the voting public, who blithely believed it was just a trading group. In some ways it's a little like Fifa. Probably corrupt and unaccountable. Ultimately it's controlled by Germany and France, a good example is the crazy situation where the EU upsticks every 6 months between Strasbourg and Brussels, clearly a huge waste of money, but to stop it would require a treaty change and France would never agree. A small aspect perhaps, but replicated in other areas of the EU.
I think an "out" vote will cause a massive of re-assesment of the EU and potentially it might actually become something that the British public would support and respect.
My final point..Cameron, a man without a political ethos in his body, he has no real hard and fast views on anything….he's all PR and craves power and he's hugely misjudged this referendum. Why would any leader offer his people the option to vote for war, recession, job losses, and all the other plagues that are apparently coming our way on the 24th June if we vote out. Especially as 6 months previous he claimed he was an "Undecided" but waiting to see how his so-called renegotiation went. Obviously because his initial strategy was flawed, he never thought the vote would happen…like everyone else he thought Labour would get in at the last election. He's been exposed as a political lightweight, who is only good at PM's Questions. He's finished.
Agree with what you say Al saw the BBC programme are we better in then out could not believe it when they said about the upping of sticks between Strasbourg and Brussels costs £154 million a year.Anyway sat down watched Grove on sky last night thought he came across better then the other idiot the night before therefore I will be voting out on the 23rd.They keep mentioning that Europe is a big trading block 500 million people but the commonwealth with whom we have strong links is 2billion strong and if Europe imposes trade tariffs on our goods we just do the same to theirs and as regards the European arrest warrants well it's works both ways if they won't give us someone then when they won't someone off us they can go and whistle.Sorry for getting on my soapbox but I feel a lot better now
steve wright
04-06-2016, 17:32
Out for me -simple as. The EU are scared that we will leave and rightly so, they have more to lose
Keith Jones 989
05-06-2016, 10:08
Thanks Gwyn,
An excellent precis of why I feel I need to vote out. Over the last few days I've been mulling over the potential pitfalls of Brexit for my daughters and grandchildren, knowing my gut-feeling was to walk away, but with potential to bottle it on referendum day and vote "In". But you're so right, this grouping is not what we joined, although Heath and his cohorts knew it, they never told the voting public, who blithely believed it was just a trading group. In some ways it's a little like Fifa. Probably corrupt and unaccountable. Ultimately it's controlled by Germany and France, a good example is the crazy situation where the EU upsticks every 6 months between Strasbourg and Brussels, clearly a huge waste of money, but to stop it would require a treaty change and France would never agree. A small aspect perhaps, but replicated in other areas of the EU.
I think an "out" vote will cause a massive of re-assesment of the EU and potentially it might actually become something that the British public would support and respect.
My final point..Cameron, a man without a political ethos in his body, he has no real hard and fast views on anything….he's all PR and craves power and he's hugely misjudged this referendum. Why would any leader offer his people the option to vote for war, recession, job losses, and all the other plagues that are apparently coming our way on the 24th June if we vote out. Especially as 6 months previous he claimed he was an "Undecided" but waiting to see how his so-called renegotiation went. Obviously because his initial strategy was flawed, he never thought the vote would happen…like everyone else he thought Labour would get in at the last election. He's been exposed as a political lightweight, who is only good at PM's Questions. He's finished.
And which PMQ was it that Cameron was good at? I thought I watched them all but must have missed one!
In fairness he's easily been better than Millband or Corbyn….Sitting targets perhaps, but you get my point.
Bricoates
05-06-2016, 19:58
What puzzles me is that the Scottish National Party want to break away from London, (on the same Island) and run the Country under their own democratically elected Leader, the same can be said of Plaid Cymru, both party's hate to be governed by Westminster citing the fact that neither Country voted for this Tory Government and yet both party's are shouting from the rooftops to stay in the E.U. not only they have not been given a vote to elect the commissioners who has the final say on E.U. decisions I bet they cant name any, they hate a democratically elected government in the UK, and welcome the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, We in Wales do have a handout from the E.U. because we are a poor Nation, nothing to be proud of but you can bet your bottom Dollar that as soon as the poorer Eastern block Countries start knocking at the door there will be no more crumbs to share out, and you can shout from the rooftops or the top of Snowdon, all you will hear is Non, Non, Non, or Nein, Nein, Nein, better to opt out and fight for some crumbs on home soil, this is our last chance, and please Carwyn Jones, you don’t speak for all of us when you say that Wales want to remain in Europe.
hi folks.
I am keeping well away from this discussion. Mostly. But, there are times when stuff needs possibly Correcting. Bri, you mention 'crumbs' the following link is from''The Welsh Government'' and makes interesting reading. If these figures are 'crumbs' then i would not mind a few myself.
http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/?lang=en
ivor
Bricoates
06-06-2016, 17:26
Maybe I was a bit harsh on the amount of benefits we in Wales get back from Europe, I believe that the UK puts in 8.5 Billion a year, and according to The Welsh Government’s heading on Ivor’s link we receive £500 million back in European funds annually, so that leaves 8 Billion so I’ll re-phrase my sentence and say that “We in Wales should be grateful for the small piece of cake that we receive back from Europe each year”.
0752chris
08-06-2016, 21:58
Frankly doubt there would be a motorway in Wales without EU funding and no dual carriageway to Carmarthen.
There is no certainty that any of the money Wales is allocated by virtue of EU policies would get allocated when "control" returns to England. This goes for scientific research in the universities, for farmers, and for infrastructure.
To those who believe the stories about EU being undemocratic I would say that it is a lot more democratic than Brexiteers admit. All important decisions are taken by the Council of Ministers in which Britain has a veto. Of the decisions put to a vote in the last 15 years, UK voted with the majority over 9 times out of 10. The times UK voted against the majority was to protect banker bonuses and stop money being spent on science and infrastructure (2012). In addition to the Council there is a democratically elected Parliament tasked to improve legislative proposals - hardly the fault of EU that UK sends a lot of parliamentarians to Brussels who never make a contribution, preferring to sound off about pigs at the trough.
Good luck making up your minds. It is simply tragic how politicians and media are spreading so many falsehoods.
Take on board what you say Chris and I have been doing a hell of a lot of reading over the last few days and it's certainly an eye opener The common market as was when we joined was for trade purposes and I have no problem with that but now it's gone beyond that and I have no wish to belong to a United States of Europe.I am afraid that those in charge of the EU don't like us one of the articles I read was from a MEP not Uk who stated that any thing put forward by the UK will go nowhere Then I see today that two ex PMs are warning against leaving and that's rich from a bloke that took us into a war with a pack of lies and the other one was so weak and gutless
Nowadays I try to stay out of UK internal matters on this forum. Only this is a matter for all Europe. Brexit, Grexit or what ever could be Gexit, Frexit or Swexit.
Think an infantry batallion, where the companies and platoons are independent, and takes on whatever tasks they like. That would probably not work out well.
Nor would any kind of exit from the EU in my mind. We need to stay strong for the Russians and The US. We also need the free movement between our countries, and a good police cooperation. Exit means we go back at least a century, to when every country in Europe did as they pleased. That did not go very well a hundred years or so ago.
Best of luck with your referendum, but personally I dread a Brexit and what the consequenses will be.
And that's why we are a member of NATO nothing to do with being in the EU and with regards to Police cooperation nothing will change that we will continue to share information.
For my two cents worth, you'd have to say that since the end of WW2 our Western nations have been gradually manipulated, bit by bit, into giving up almost everything that we once loved and stood for. Collectively our societies are thoroughly fractured and to stay the course is to take the path to sure doom. In both world wars we had our own 'safe havens'...I mean atleast we had our own turf with which to stage our defences when attacked. Not now. What we have now is a humongous Trojan Horse. Wheeled in with annual political promises that things will get better, when they actually won't. So, when will its troopers emerge? The common gut feeling, is there such a thing, is that there must be a possibility, surely, that 'someone' just has to "flick the switch" and those troopers will not so magically appear, as they are amoungst us already, and then it will be on for young and old. If change is not made the outcome is certainly doom and gloom. Evidence... look at the minutae of changes we have been somewhat 'forced' to endure, the concessions, and each one just another step backwards, but taken as a whole it's a whole act of breakdown. It's not a strain on the brain to think that our apparent backslide is something of a deliberate, concerted, yet gradually paced, attempt at wholesale cultural genocide. There's that old saying, "You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.". More and more people are not being fooled. Just look at politics in the US, just look at the politics in Europe. Something is coming. Our grandfathers seemed to have died in droves only so that some obscure, yet clearly international, common religeo-political force could slip in under the radar and systematically parcel us off into foreign ownership. That force has to be stopped.
Just watching the debate on BBC can some one tell the Mayor of London that Australia is not part of NATO
And if Mr Trump gets elected, the US might withdraw. Scary thought!
Lars
If that happens best we start learning Russian
steve bird
22-06-2016, 20:19
Vodca dar dar dar
Not lived in Wales for many years now so can someone tell me why they have just bitten the hand off the person that feeds them
hi folks..
So England has voted to leave.. NOTE. NOT Scotland or Northern Ireland. the financial markets are in turmoil.The P.M. is to Resign. his Replacement Will Be Elected by Party Members. So a PM who is Un-elected by the People (ring any bells with Brussels). Any way, until Clause 50 of the Treaty of Brussels is activated the 2 year leave period does not start. it may be of interest that a number of Euro skeptic Cons are saying. well we should wait a bit before we do this, Liam Fox for one.
We are Still in EU. and will be for many years. this Referendum has NO LEGAL standing it was JUST ADVISORY. So do not get too excited we ain't left yet, and may not do so for many years. There will be a Hell of a lot more talking to be done yet. Scotland are already talking about another Referendum over a split with the UK. this will happen so bye bye UK, if Clause 50 is triggered.
ivor
hi folks..
So England has voted to leave.. NOTE. NOT Scotland or Northern Ireland. the financial markets are in turmoil.The P.M. is to Resign. his Replacement Will Be Elected by Party Members. So a PM who is Un-elected by the People (ring any bells with Brussels). Any way, until Clause 50 of the Treaty of Brussels is activated the 2 year leave period does not start. it may be of interest that a number of Euro skeptic Cons are saying. well we should wait a bit before we do this, Liam Fox for one.
We are Still in EU. and will be for many years. this Referendum has NO LEGAL standing it was JUST ADVISORY. So do not get too excited we ain't left yet, and may not do so for many years. There will be a Hell of a lot more talking to be done yet. Scotland are already talking about another Referendum over a split with the UK. this will happen so bye bye UK, if Clause 50 is triggered.
ivor
You forgot Wales
Hi
Sorry about that not deliberate just hadn't seen the figures. But just 3.4% is not really convincing. The whole majority nationally is Only 3.8%. This may not be a Large enough Majority for the Gov to activate Clause 50. it is certainly Not Convincing. the Scotland vote 62% to 38%. Has to be given a very great deal of thought, this, to me, would mean that the Westminster gov would not have the authority to pull them out with the UK. Without a great deal of Trouble.
ivor
Ivor I go back to my last question as I have not been living in Wales for many years why have they bitten off the hand that feeds them
hi.
Oh Dear i was hopeing you had forgotten that bit. Well, now some people are not going to like this. From the start of the campaign, and the reason i have kept out of most discussions, is that the ''Leave'' campaign has been 'Mushrooming' the people, Keeping them in the dark and feeding them ''Bull****''.
The whole thing was never about immigration or Money for the NHS. The 350Bn painted on the 'leave ' bus was fiction which was proved but it was not removed.
But with regard to your Question, if you look at post ''36'' it would seem that a lot of welsh were for remain so did not wish to ''Bite off the hand...''. so what happened. With such a small majority, it may have been down to''Leavers'' using their own transport to ferry their supporters to the Polling Stations. and it is certainly not a big enough majority to pull the country out.
ivor
welchboy
25-06-2016, 00:04
Another interesting point, will the British Army be back policing the boarders of Northern Island. How will the vote to leave impact on the Belfast Agreement of 1998, which was the cornerstone of the peace settlement in that anyone born in NI., has the right to be a citizen of the U.K., or the Republic or both. which would mean that one could be a EU citizen and yet not be EU citizen. No doubt this will be addressed in the coming months or will it. Yet I have the gut feeling that the shot will fall once again on the poor British squalid, who will find himself policing the boarders of NI.
Read your post with interest Ivor then googled the point you make to find you were correct in stating its not legally binding and can be overturned in parliament. I am not on any social media site but my next door neighbor has a son who is and is of an age that this decision will effect him.He tells me that many people voted to leave not reliasing the full consequences of what they had done and having Seen what has occurred now regret that decision.I see that the first minister of Scotland is again thinking of a referendum as she believes that Scotland wishes to remain in the EU but if she is not happy with this result then Iwould have thought that this would be a better course of action for her with the number of SMPs Labour,conservative and many others who would outnumber the leave MPs by 2--1 this decision could easily be overturned but it would take a brave man to start this off.Of course we could have a general election and a party could run on the promise of joining the EU as part of its manifesto. I just hope that we have not cut off our nose to spite our face.One last point I watched Ed Balls on TV last night and he made a comment "don't be surprised if the EU come back with a compromise to put to the British people in a referendum " As it stands at the moment we will just have to wait and see if the decision made by the British public is the right one I just have a sickly feeling that we have messed up the future of our children and grand children
steve wright
25-06-2016, 09:29
The EU also has egg on its face. If Merkel had handled the negotiations better with Dave and given him something better to convince the UK public regarding immigration etc the vote may well have been different. By the way I voted out and would do so again
Morning Folks
This makes for some interesting reading.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-why-we-may-remain-even-if-we-vote-leave-a3272621.html
ivor
Morning Folks
This makes for some interesting reading.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-why-we-may-remain-even-if-we-vote-leave-a3272621.html
ivor
thanks for that Ivor however you now got to find enough MPs with balls to vote it down,they will protect their own backs making sure they get their seat back at the next general election and not do something that's best for the country.I voted out and would do so again however what worries me is the uncertainty that it has caused and this will carry on for the next few years and now they are talking about a general election as well.
hi.
yes i think another G.E is very likely. as any replacement for DC is going to be an ''Un elected PM'' and i doubt if that would give them the authority to Negotiate any new deal. But if that article is correct, and i suspect it is, then i can not see an Act of Parliament getting through. As you say. the uncertainty is the problem. i read an article re British Holidaymakers in Greece being unable to change 'British £' in their Hotel, no one knew what the rate of exchange was. I suspect it will get worse for a while until the 'Dust Clears'
ivor
hi.
yes i think another G.E is very likely. as any replacement for DC is going to be an ''Un elected PM'' and i doubt if that would give them the authority to Negotiate any new deal. But if that article is correct, and i suspect it is, then i can not see an Act of Parliament getting through. As you say. the uncertainty is the problem. i read an article re British Holidaymakers in Greece being unable to change 'British £' in their Hotel, no one knew what the rate of exchange was. I suspect it will get worse for a while until the 'Dust Clears'
ivor
I also read tourists were having trouble changing money in the USA and Australia and other countries
Just watching Farage giving his speech in Brussels he has done us no favours at all I voted out don't regret but I didn't wake up Friday morning and feel great about it I knew the pound and stock markets would take a hit and we will now pay for it we may get out of being ruled by Brussels but they are now talking about us having access to the single market which we may well get but they are going to make us pay for that and in reality will cost us more then £350 million a week that the leave campaign said we could save.Osborn has said to expect tax raises and government spending so thinks are going to get a loss worst before getting better I suggest you hold on to your hats
Bricoates
28-06-2016, 13:38
Ivor I go back to my last question as I have not been living in Wales for many years why have they bitten off the hand that feeds them
Is there a price on Freedom, democracy and Sovereignty?
You forgot to mention stupidly
steve bird
28-06-2016, 20:46
Fear of the unknown scaremongering doom and gloom most of the remain stamping their feet the jocks crying into their watered down whiskey northern Irish wobbling in their Guinness 27 EU members screaming you will pay but let's be honest no one knows nothing no one can say with certain what will happen me I do know I voted out right or wrong me I do believe in my country me I do believe all will be well in time to come without the EU telling us with out the EU making demands on us we can trade with the whole world we can deport foreign prisoners we can deport illegal immigrants we can still have legal immigration we will be just as safe and I believe my children and grandchildren will be better off independent from the EU just saying stupidity or not
It will be interesting to see if the scots go for a referendum whist in scotand it was a remain vote by one million votes what is not mentioned is 1.3 million scots did not vote.The EU will go out of the way to allow scotland in to spite the rest of us.But what they need to remember is at the moment they have self rule and if they went into the EU that would end Brussels would then tell them what to do.At the end of the day she does not want to be remember as the First Minister of Scotland but the First President of Scotland.As I have said before lets cut them loose and all the money we send up to them can be diverted to the rest of the UK and by the way our submarine fleet comes south of the border along with the 6000 jobs that go with it
Dave Wozencroft
29-06-2016, 11:15
OK good people we voted and we are out of the EU, so less of the bickering and time to get on with our lives ...
hi.
Dave. Sorry Buddy but We Are Not Out of The EU. You need to check the Facts. The Referendum was only Advisory and has No Legal Standing. We are Still in until at least 2 years after Clause 50 is triggered, if it is ever. The Final Decision re Clause 50 is down to the Government NOT the Referendum, and as the greater part of the MP's seem to be for remain Brexit may never happen. IT is highly probable that the House of Lords would not pass it.
I doubt that any Government would risk the Break up of the UK. Scotland becoming Independent and NI rejoining with the rest of Ireland. A majority of just 3.8% is too close for comfort. So as you say, let us get on with our lives as Members, for the Foreseeable future, of the EU.
ivor
hi.
Dave. Sorry Buddy but We Are Not Out of The EU. You need to check the Facts. The Referendum was only Advisory and has No Legal Standing. We are Still in until at least 2 years after Clause 50 is triggered, if it is ever. The Final Decision re Clause 50 is down to the Government NOT the Referendum, and as the greater part of the MP's seem to be for remain Brexit may never happen. IT is highly probable that the House of Lords would not pass it.
I doubt that any Government would risk the Break up of the UK. Scotland becoming Independent and NI rejoining with the rest of Ireland. A majority of just 3.8% is too close for comfort. So as you say, let us get on with our lives as Members, for the Foreseeable future, of the EU.
ivor
ivor what's come first MPs voting or article 50 being signed
Hi.
A very good question. and i must admit i am not sure. But i would think it likely that the MPs would have to vote on it first. I very much doubt that the PM alone would have the authority.As i said before there is an added problem here. as DC is resigning the authority of his replacement is possibly open to question( elected by the party). and i strongly suspect that a General Election will be called. If this should happen then i suspect that the Main Campaigning point will be the EU membership. and only on this result would Clause 50 be triggered.
However this is only my opinion. i will look into this.
ivor
Hi again.
the following is an extract from a page re the Treaty which is linked below.
I believe that the Wording of the last line refers to a Parliamentary Vote, with whatever that entails.
The exit process is triggered by a letter, or perhaps an email. If Britain votes to leave, this only becomes a legal reality once the prime minister informs the European Council, which is made up of the president and 28 heads of state and government. The clause makes clear that it is for the member state to decide to start the exit process -- the trigger cannot be pulled by anyone else. Only the British government can decide when to invoke Article 50.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2723242-Article-50-EU-Treaty.html
ivor
hi again.
Let me just add something which may clear up some Confusion. in the article i linked.#57 one para states that
'' MP's are Representatives not Delegates. The difference being they are there to decide what ... In Their Judgement is good for us and the Country, Not simply to do what we say''.
The article further suggests that as many as 70% of MP's are for Remain. 20% for leave and 10% undecided. If these figures are close to being correct, i can not see C50 being triggered any time soon.
ivor
hi folks.
Nearly 3 months down the line from the vote and Nothing has changed, Nothing. we are still in the EU. and No one has any idea where we go from Here. Great. the following is a link to a Guardian Article from Sat 10th. Never mind the politics of the Newspaper. the article makes interesting reading..
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/why-would-eu-appease-deluded-brexiters
ivor
The trouble is if they don,t carry out the wishes of the vote then come the next General Election they start to look for a new job because people have long memories and they will not vote them back in.
Hi all.
The problem is that they don't have to do anything, the vote was non binding with No Legal basis. But there is another problem. you say about the public reaction to their wishes not being carried out. i think there may be a very strong reaction to having been Lied to. There is also a problem with the size of the Majority. 3.8% is a very small figure which could disappear very quickly. i have read, somewhere, that in a recent poll this figure has gone. the remain folks are back in the lead. the PM is in a very tricky situation. she has to be seen to be doing something, but the realistic situation is that it will be extremely difficult if not a Disaster it we do pull out. this is becoming more obvious as time goes on. take the Japanese threat to pull out this should be taken very seriously. The UK of the 21st C is totally different from pre EU days. we have ''Sold Off '' so much of our industry to foreign investors that i do not see how we can survive if they withdraw their support.For Example. the Steel Industry, and this is just one industry. We have become To Reliant on Foreign Investment. I think there is an element of 'Going through the Motions' but in the end it will prove to be an impossibility to get out. While i have some idea of Constitutional law, which nobody is talking about yet, it will take Acts of Parliament to do it. which with the current make up of M.P's is unlikely to happen. This is going to run for many, many years.
Bricoates
13-09-2016, 18:15
"Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it."
Theresa May
" i think there may be a very strong reaction to having been Lied to."
VORI 101
Is Theresa going to lie as well?
Strange I have spoken to many people who voted to remain yet given the chance again they would vote out I have yet to meet someone who voted out but would vote to remain in.But I am getting peed off with these people who lost the vote keeping on about it had the vote gone the other way I would have accepted that and not made a song and dance about it thats why we live in a democracy whilst I agree with you on the fact that it has no legal basis the majority of the people voted out.If we had a general election and the same winning party only had a majority of 3.8% would we accept that the answer is yes we would the people have voted so.If people are not happy with the decision then vote with your feet and leave the uk.On a final note my mate works with a load of Polish workers and when he spoke to them about it they said had they had the vote then they would have voted the same way has the rest of the country leave the EU so what does that tell you, also one last thing lies where told but they were told by both sides
Hi all.
The problem is that they don't have to do anything, the vote was non binding with No Legal basis. But there is another problem. you say about the public reaction to their wishes not being carried out. i think there may be a very strong reaction to having been Lied to. There is also a problem with the size of the Majority. 3.8% is a very small figure which could disappear very quickly. i have read, somewhere, that in a recent poll this figure has gone. the remain folks are back in the lead. the PM is in a very tricky situation. she has to be seen to be doing something, but the realistic situation is that it will be extremely difficult if not a Disaster it we do pull out. this is becoming more obvious as time goes on. take the Japanese threat to pull out this should be taken very seriously. The UK of the 21st C is totally different from pre EU days. we have ''Sold Off '' so much of our industry to foreign investors that i do not see how we can survive if they withdraw their support.For Example. the Steel Industry, and this is just one industry. We have become To Reliant on Foreign Investment. I think there is an element of 'Going through the Motions' but in the end it will prove to be an impossibility to get out. While i have some idea of Constitutional law, which nobody is talking about yet, it will take Acts of Parliament to do it. which with the current make up of M.P's is unlikely to happen. This is going to run for many, many years.
BREAKING: Theresa May has asked Mauricio Pochettino to lead Brexit negotiations as he's managed to get Spurs out of Europe in just 2 months.
Hi guys.
some interesting reading for you all...https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought
ivor
Hi guys.
some interesting reading for you all...https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought
ivor
Well it is the guardian
By election tomorrow in Lincolnshire will be interesting to see who wins that one.
Another company moving to the UK
McDonald’s Corp. shrugged off Brexit by announcing plans to switch its non-U.S. tax base to the U.K., ditching tiny Luxembourg where its fiscal arrangements are under attack from European Union regulators.
In an apparent vote of confidence in the U.K., the hamburger giant said Thursday it’s creating a new international holding company based in Britain, which decided in June to quit the EU. The new company will be responsible for most of the royalties received from licensing McDonald’s intellectual property rights outside the U.S. It will pay U.K. corporation tax, according to an e-mailed statement.
So now they are saying the UK will be subject to a 50 Billion euros levy to leave now if that does not smack of bullying I don't know what does. They are so worried of us leaving that they are doing everything to prevent it, I have no doubt that this will play into the hands of those that want us to remain.Whilst I want to leave the way things are going I just can't see us leaving people will get too worried about it.Lets just call their bluff and leave now
hi.
have you read what David Davis has been saying today
Had a look on line can't see anything what's he been saying
hi
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/743559/Brexit-News-David-Davis-Article-50-reversed-EU-negotiations
shows how the thinking is going
Hi Ivor the question would be why would we want to reverse it we voted leave so let's just get on with it.
hi.
now that is a very good question.Davis's comments are very similar in a way to The Chancellors comments. i think they are waking up to the reality of the situation. and possibility realizing what we are facing. the term ''preparing the groundwork'' comes to mind. It would appear that May was snubbed at today's meeting of EU. and we are still officially a member. the situation may come to a point that it would be in the National Interest to ignore the Referendum (which was only Advisory anyway) and any consequences and not trigger C50, or at some stage if negotiations were not going our way withdraw the C50 notification. i suspect that things are going to get Very Messy over the next month or two. i think it is a case of ''watch this space''
Agree with what you say regarding going to get very messy, but what this whole bag of worms has revealed to me is how nasty and vindictive Junckers and his cronies are,they were leaders of small (and for lack of better words) insignificant little countries in Europe and have now got to big for their boots. The fact that they are coming out with all these threats indicates that they have more to lose from the UK leaving then we have from leaving the EU and are going to put as many obstacles in our path as they can. When we voted to leave I thought to myself what was going to occur however as time as progressed it has just made me more determined that we do leave ASAP even my daughter who voted to remain and was in tears after the result as said that we should now leave and get on with it because even she is fed up with those people.
Having posted my last just read this in Daily Express
Bob Geldof's Brexit U-turn: Rock star admits European Union does NOT workREMAIN campaigner Sir Bob Geldof has done a U-turn and unleashed a blistering attack on the European Union.
Hi.
I do not think i would be very concerned with Mr Geldorf's opinion on anything after all he is Irish i believe. But you are right in saying that the loss of the UK would be a major blow to the EU. but a block of 27 nations have a very good chance of surviving it. However, on the other hand, the UK which is no longer the major power it was, to become isolated from favorable trade deals with Europe and the USA, even for a short period of time, could prove an Economic Disaster. As you are aware a Major part of whats left of our Manufacturing base is no longer British Owned. these owners are out to make Profit so they are not going to be happy with a UK that has become a Fringe Country on the Edge of the Major Trading Nations. I grew up in the years when Britain was Great, 40's,50's,60's into the 70's and have witnessed the fairly Gradual Decline of the UK until now it is just a Shadow of what it was. Maybe this Bexit will see it disappear altogether. which would be a shame. the saddest thing is that the young folks of today have NO IDEA what has been lost and will still be lost because of Inept and stupid Governments.
Only time will tell as you said a lot of companies are foreign owned yet since the vote several major companies are moving business here and some of those are moving from the EU even German ones.We will just have to wait and see.
welchboy
19-12-2016, 00:15
I believe that the European community has suddenly realised that their income once Britain leaves will be reduced and the short fall will have to be found from the remaining members, so lets put the scare factor into place. Secondly there are a number of British members of the European Parliament and supporting staff whose little gravey train is about to hit the buffers, it is certainly not in their interests for Britain to leave.
So FIFA have fined the four home nations for the use of the Poppy in November yet all the fines for the four were completely in excess of the fine levied on the Republic of Ireland for promoting the Easter uprising on their shirts or is it because the four home nations are part of the uk who voted to leave the EU and the Republic remains a member.
[QUOTE=welchboy;88615]I believe that the European community has suddenly realised that their income once Britain leaves will be reduced and the short fall will have to be found from the remaining members, so lets put the scare factor into place. Secondly there are a number of British members of the European Parliament and supporting staff whose little gravey train is about to hit the buffers, it is certainly not in their interests for Britain to leave.[/QUOT
Hit the nail on the head there bet the Kinnocks are worried they have both milked that gravy train
welchboy
20-12-2016, 17:44
Yes certainly a very large drop in their family income, also the free and subsidised travel.
welchboy
20-12-2016, 17:55
So FIFA have fined the four home nations for the use of the Poppy in November yet all the fines for the four were completely in excess of the fine levied on the Republic of Ireland for promoting the Easter uprising on their shirts or is it because the four home nations are part of the uk who voted to leave the EU and the Republic remains a member.
That may be part of it, but I think it is also because they are brassed off with the lack of very bulky envelopes which have not been forth coming from the home nations. Need to make the short fall up some how. In view of the corruption that surrounds FIFA., where do the fines go to or should that be who do they go to ?
Yes certainly a very large drop in their family income, also the free and subsidised travel.
Maybe their MP son can employ them as staff
welchboy
23-12-2016, 17:41
Yes, I should think he could, married to Helle Thorning-Schmidt former Prime Minister of Denmark. Both were investigated by the Danish Tax Authorities for tax evasion. Prosecution was avoided by paying back due taxes. Would appear that they both made slight errors in their tax returns over a number of years. They are all corrupt.
Yes, I should think he could, married to Helle Thorning-Schmidt former Prime Minister of Denmark. Both were investigated by the Danish Tax Authorities for tax evasion. Prosecution was avoided by paying back due taxes. Would appear that they both made slight errors in their tax returns over a number of years. They are all corrupt.
My neighbor once told me you can tell when they are lying their lips are moving
This really beggers belief sooner we are out the better.
The European Union has ruled that even motorists who break the law by driving without insurance should be protected if their car is damaged
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling last night said he was furious that ‘hardworking drivers will foot the bill for the irresponsible actions’ of criminals.
But he added that, until the UK leaves the EU, he is powerless to stop it.
The Cabinet minister, who backed the Brexit campaign, promised to return to the current rules once we have quit the bloc – when we will be free to rip up the edict.
Under current British rules, protection is given to motorists whose car is damaged by an uninsured driver. A body called the Motor Insurers’ Bureau charges every insurer in the country a levy to meet the bill.
The cost – some £256million last year, or around £10 per driver – is passed on to motorists through their premiums.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4115536/EU-car-insurance-farce-Premiums-set-rise-UNINSURED-drivers-compensation.html#ixzz4VdiBSqcN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline) | DailyMail on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail)
welchboy
14-01-2017, 23:17
I warrant that if this does not suit the French, then they will not comply. They only comply with the regulations which favour their own country.
I warrant that if this does not suit the French, then they will not comply. They only comply with the regulations which favour their own country.
think you have hit the nail on the head there
Watching question time Thursday night Owen Smith MP for Pontypridd was on kept saying that it was only a slim majority that voted to leave the EU and he's not the only person to say this but surly even if it only one vote between them that is still a majority. He also stated that he voted against article 50 as he wanted to do what was in the best interests of his constitutions now correct me if i am wrong but didn't the majority of his constitutions vote to leave
welchboy
11-02-2017, 14:56
Watching question time Thursday night Owen Smith MP for Pontypridd was on kept saying that it was only a slim majority that voted to leave the EU and he's not the only person to say this but surly even if it only one vote between them that is still a majority. He also stated that he voted against article 50 as he wanted to do what was in the best interests of his constitutions now correct me if i am wrong but didn't the majority of his constitutions vote to leave
Quote, from those old cowboy films, " White man speak with forked tongue ".
Then again he is a modern politician so the truth is what he thinks it is at the time he opens his mouth.
France has been named as the nation who wants to punish Britain most of all no surprises there then bloody frogs
welchboy
06-04-2017, 20:53
[QUOTE=jones20;89910]France has been named as the nation who wants to punish Britain most of all no surprises there then bloody frogs[/QUOTE
" Do not mention Waterloo Pike "
Keith Jones 989
07-04-2017, 22:07
Time to flood and fill the Chunnel, methinks. Share price is cr*p anyway!
Just watched an episode of Sharpe its was the battle of Waterloo I feel so much better now
welchboy
08-04-2017, 23:10
Just watched an episode of Sharpe its was the battle of Waterloo I feel so much better now
Yes always thought that our relations with France were much better in that period. Government of the day seemed to get the message across much better, no letters of intent or time scales when we would leave Europe. Just knocked the seven kinds of s..t out of them, which clearly worked up to the last 40 years or so.
Britain is welcome to change its mind and remain in the European Union, but can only stay on poorer terms, a senior EU official has said.
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's Brexit coordinator, said that Brexit can be halted, but if Britain reversed course it should not expect to keep getting its EU budget rebates or opt-outs from key EU rules.
ALL THE MORE REASON TO LEAVE
So BMW have now said that the electric mini will be built in the Uk having previously said it would move to Germany project fear from the EU strikes yet again
Car sales down in the uk for the fourth month running yet people are putting two and two together coming up with four and blaming Brexit uncertainty, how about as from April new vehicle excise duties for cars came into force and when you look at what it costs to pay the duty on new cars it's frightening maybe that's why sales of new cars of fallen for the last four months, would be interesting to see figures on the sale of second hand cars registered before April that fell into the old excise duty for the same period
keithwill38
06-08-2017, 00:13
MP,s always seem to forget the obvious
LightOrder
06-08-2017, 10:20
I Notice Vince Cable said on the news this Morning that [060817] “The Older generation had shafted the younger generation by voting for Brexit”.
Surely that is what democracy is all about, everyone gets a vote no matter what age they are and the majority gets to win.
I know traditionally it has always been the older generation that has been bothered to vote and the majority of the youngster had better things to do on the day.
This has always been the way in most cultures and societies, the ‘Elders’ [more experienced and wiser] deciding the fate of the Nation.
If the Youngsters were that interested they should have made the effort and got themselves down to the Polling station and exercised their right to vote.
This right to vote was won by our/their Forefather/Mothers sacrifice in most cases.
Lives have been lost so non-voters, who can’t be bothered to get out of bed and exercise this hard won prerogative, still have the opportunity to do so.
There was only an upsurge in younger voters at the last General election when Labour ‘Commissars’ in some of the universities whipped up support for Corbyn by playing the” scrapping of the University fees ‘card’.
This playing on the clever but immature mind that is also naturally anti-establishment at that stage of life.
If I have miss quoted the above, apologies in advance, however that is my interpretation.
Nicely put also in the news the sum of 34 billion being branded about as our paymentto them,as someone said earlier in this thread the uk made our payment with the sacrifices made by our troops and citizens in two world wars.
On 27 February 1953, an agreement was signed in London which resulted in the cancellation of half of Germany’s (then West Germany’s) debt: 15 billion out of a total of 30 billion Deutschmarks.*
Those cancelling the debt included the United States, the UK and France, along with Greece, Spain and Pakistan – countries which are major debtors today. The agreement also included private individuals and companies. In the years following 1953 other countries signed up to cancel German debts, including Egypt, Argentina, Belgian Congo (today the Democratic Republic of Congo), Cambodia, Cameroon, New Guinea, and the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland (today Malawi, Zambia and Zimbabwe). (1)
The German debt came from two periods: before and after World War II. Roughly half of it was from loans Germany had taken out in the 1920s and early 1930s, before the Nazis came to power, which were used to meet payments ordered by the Treaty of Versailles in 1919. They were a legacy of the huge reparations forced on the country after defeat in World War I. The other half of the debt originated from reconstruction following the end of World War II.
Maybe the UK should turn round now and tell Germany that we want full payment
This was in the papers 4 days ago
Polish authorities are looking into demanding reparations from Germany (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/germany/index.html)for the massive losses inflicted on Poland during World War II.
Officials are preparing an analysis of whether Poland can legally make the claim, though no one has said how much money they expect.
LightOrder
06-08-2017, 14:08
Lets hope they get it, the Germans have a lot to answer for, I remember when serving in BAOR, the Germans had a really good standard of living and back home [UK] workers were on a 3 day week, power cuts were the norm, Units were told to restrict their exercise miles, tracked vehicele had to be taken everywhere on transporters and we were told to patch up our denims and jumpers.
Britons travelling to Europe post-Brexit face tough grilling and £5 permit to enter EUBRITONS travelling to Europe after Brexit could face tough questioning when trying to cross the EU border under a new draft legislation, according to reports.
Whats the answer to this simple do unto others what they do unto you we'll have £5 off them as well
'Give them the BEST deal possible' German panic as Brexit threatens £25bn UK trade deficitA LEADING German MEP has demanded the European Union offers Britain the “best deal possible” when negotiating a post-Brexit trade agreement to save Germany’s £25billion trade deficit with the UK.
Figures released today EU president Junckers in the first two months (January and February) of 2016 he ran up a bill for transport and hotel bills at a staggering £451k if that's for the first two months what did he run up for the year.
Keith Jones 989
09-08-2017, 21:50
FAR too much, whatever the amount is!
So who's lying on the side of the bus the cost of us being in the EU was 350 million a week which was desputed by remainers yet this think tank have come out with a figure exceeding that
THE true cost to Britain of being in the EU has been £660million a week since 2010, a think tank says.
This includes more than £80billion lost to the Treasury after the European Court of Justice forced tax rebates to multinationals and £50billion in Eurozone bailout obligations.
In membership fees alone, after the rebate has been returned Britain has paid out £70.6billion in fees.
But the Bruges Groups says our real financial commitment is £275.08billion.
Well here's a surprise
REMOANER Gina Miller is set to make a packet out of Brexit as she is paid “an undisclosed sum” for her memoirs.
The super-wealthy hedge fund wife has become a household name after she launched a campaign to block Theresa May's Brexit plan.
In a high-profile case the stalwart remainer took her opposition to court and forced the Government to hold a vote in Parliament over the Brexit bill.
You think with all the problems she has had since she put her head above the parapet she would now keep a low profile.Just goes to show you a very intelligent woman but no common sense.
whilst the vote to leave was very close it is interesting to see that more than 70 per cent of Britons would slap down a Brexit bill of £30billion or more, according to new poll.Just how much Britain should pay Brussels – if anything at all – is a key sticking point of Brexit that must be thrashed out before the UK can start negotiating any future relationship with the EU.
Yet as public opinion hardens against giving the EU more money, voters seem to be willing to accept to offer a £10billion divorce settlement to the sprawling superstate.
welchboy
30-08-2017, 12:39
Given the fact that the government can call upon some of the finest legal brains in the country, one would have thought that they would have taken legal advice on 1. Is there a financial penalty for leaving. 2. If so how much and 3. Do the European governments owe the UK., anything on leaving. Before starting the leaving process, thus avoiding the present poor performance and uncertainty.
Keith Jones 989
30-08-2017, 12:42
I would pay them anything they asked for AFTER they have produced 40 years worth of signed off audited accounts!
welchboy
30-08-2017, 16:57
I think if they did that, they would need to build a new Bastille for they would certainly have a few new guests to cater for.
Read somewhere that because of our level of contributions we are owed 1/14th of all assets!
MICHAEL HESELTINE blasted Brexit negotiations as “humiliating” saying they will reveal to Brits how “unwise” leaving the European Union is.
The staunch Remainer said the Labour party had now hedged its bets over Brexit and the Conservatives would need to change their approach or lose the public vote.
From a bloke who can't keep it in his trousers
Germans want Britain to stay, but France backs a Brexit, says poll
And yesterday they came out and ask the uk military to help deliver aid to the Caribbean and they have the cheek to say we want our cake and to eat it, seems to me me they want their croissants and to eat it
So now we know why Branson wanted to stay in the eu One of Britain's most successful entrepreneurs has revealed that Brexit has cost his business "tens of millions of pounds".Billionaire Richard Branson, the man behind an empire which has spanned airlines to record stores, revealed the cost months after he sold off a multimillion pound major stake in Virgin Atlantic to Air France-KLM (http://www.cityam.com/269305/richard-branson-sells-slice-virgin-atlantic-air-france-klm).
welchboy
01-10-2017, 17:08
So now we know why Branson wanted to stay in the eu One of Britain's most successful entrepreneurs has revealed that Brexit has cost his business "tens of millions of pounds".Billionaire Richard Branson, the man behind an empire which has spanned airlines to record stores, revealed the cost months after he sold off a multimillion pound major stake in Virgin Atlantic to Air France-KLM (http://www.cityam.com/269305/richard-branson-sells-slice-virgin-atlantic-air-france-klm).
I note that he has failed to mention the other member of the Air FRance, KLM consortium which I believe is British Airways.
The EU's chief Brexit negotiator has said not enough progress has been made in divorce talks to begin discussing a future trade deal.
As I have said before what’s the point in talking to these people let’s just leave
Joe Cartwright
04-10-2017, 17:44
Fully agree with you. We've given them billions over the years and Junker still wants more. His bar tab must be bigger than I first thought!
Reversing the Brexit process would boost the UK economy, the international economic body, the OECD has said.Strange that from an organisation that is funded by the EU we’ll take that bit of advice with a pinch of salt then
Someone enlighten me why is it that the EU can go ahead and nagotiate trade deals with other countries ie New Zealand ���� and Australia ���� and will not allow us to do the same before we leave surly what’s good for the goose is good for the gander
steve bird
26-10-2017, 19:32
The trouble with the UK when it is the European block we have always gone by the book while the other members have do e as they please it is about time our government took it's nose out of the rule book and said look we are going we will negotiate with who ever where ever so kiss our **** and kick us fine us and we will not pay kick us out thank you bye bye
Billions of euros of British taxpayers' money could remain locked into an EU bank for more than thirty years after Brexit, the UK has been warned.
Alexander Stubb, vice president of the European Investment Bank - in which the UK is a 16% shareholder - said it would not be fully repaid until 2054.
Double standards or what they want our money up front before we leave yet the money we have in the Eu bank we may not be able to touch for 30 years As Boris Johnson says go whistle for it
The European Union is reportedly threatening to hold back Britain's fina l€5.6bn rebate payment from Brussels as part of negotiations over the so-called Brexit "divorce" bill.
European Council president Donald Tusk has set a deadline of the start of December for Britain to make further movement on the financial settlement in order to unlock trade talks.
But according to reports, Brussels negotiators have not provided clarity on the final rebate payment for 2018, which is due to come a year in arrears after Britain's scheduled exit from the EU on March 29 2019.
here we go again one law for one and one law for another can’t believe the PM is allegedly going to put a bigger offer on the table when this is their attitude just offer what we have offered which is reputed to be 20 billion which is 20 billion too much as far as I am concerned and take the 5.6 billion off that two can play their game
LightOrder
19-11-2017, 16:01
Bet thed 'Krauts' are behind this... need Mr Jones the butcher here, "they dont like it up em" [Cold Steel].
Joe Cartwright
19-11-2017, 18:25
I agree, we are too damn soft with them. This Government needs to grow a pair, and tell them we need to progress or we walk.
THE EUROPEAN Union has finally admitted that without the UK’s sizeable contributions the bloated Brussels budget will collapse, a secret memo has revealed.
Confidential papers from the European Commission reveal that Brexit will slash the trade bloc’s budget by 16 per cent and could lead to a suspension of aid to some of Europe’s expectant countries.
Spain’s €37billion and Italy’s €43bn in structural funds from the EU could be drastically cut once the UK leaves the EU, while aid money to Greece, Portugal and Eastern European countries could also be at risk.
THERESA May’s £36billion Brexit divorce bill offer is not enough to move negotiations to phase two,EU diplomats have blasted.
Lets see what she does now as Joe says get the government to grow a pair and tell them where to stick it.There are many in the EU who seem to forget that they owe us their freedom and our price that we have paid lies in the war graves of our brave men and women throughout Europe
Five UK cities spent thousands of pounds putting together bids for the accolade, only to be told a year after the application deadline passed that they would not be considered because of Brexit.
However, the European bloc has awarded the title to non–EU countries in the past.
This just goes to show what an **** Junckers is
EUROPE has “considerably more to lose than previously thought” from a no deal Brexit which would cause more than 1.2 million people on the continent to lose their jobs, bombshell new analysis reveals today.
Fresh projections from experts show that the EU27’s economic output would be hit by 1.5 per cent if tariffs are imposed on trade, with Ireland, Belgium and Malta suffering the most proportionally.
Germany would shed the highest number of jobs overall with 290,000 people, most highly skilled workers in the car industry, being put out of work if EU leaders fail to strike an agreement with Britain.
welchboy
28-11-2017, 21:02
EUROPE has “considerably more to lose than previously thought” from a no deal Brexit which would cause more than 1.2 million people on the continent to lose their jobs, bombshell new analysis reveals today.
Fresh projections from experts show that the EU27’s economic output would be hit by 1.5 per cent if tariffs are imposed on trade, with Ireland, Belgium and Malta suffering the most proportionally.
Germany would shed the highest number of jobs overall with 290,000 people, most highly skilled workers in the car industry, being put out of work if EU leaders fail to strike an agreement with Britain.
That's why collectively they are trying to screw us for more and more money before they will talk business / trade. Then we also have Southern Ireland stirring the mix,
I would have thought really could lose out without a share of that money.
So press reports state we are going to pay up to 89 billion eu divorces bill I voted to leave and have not changed my mind but that amount of money is just plain stupid.Where is Boris now with his “the eu can go whistle for it “ his silence is deafening.If May is just going to roll over on this then it’s about time we had a new PM with a bit of backbone
BRITISH taxpayers could end up forking out for free inter-rail passes for teenagers and improved Wi-Fi connections across Greece if the Government stumps up a £50 billion Brexit bill.
The eyewatering size of the settlement suggests Britain will be paying for a lot more than existing EU obligations such as pensions, insurance, borrowing and budget commitments.
And there are fears some of the billions being handed over in return for trade talks will be used to finance some of the more fanciful vanity projects dreamed up in Brussels.
BREXIT backing MEPs today reacted with fury after EU chiefs signed off on a gargantuan £140 billion budget for 2018.
Eurosceptics branded the vast spending “wasteful” and said British taxpayers should be “livid” at how their money is being spent.
Today the EU parliament formally adopted the spending plan for next year, which represents a £2.6 billion hike from 2017.
This budget is the last one that Britain will contribute to as a full member of the club, with the UK set to leave the EU in March 2019.
welchboy
30-11-2017, 17:08
BREXIT backing MEPs today reacted with fury after EU chiefs signed off on a gargantuan £140 billion budget for 2018.
Eurosceptics branded the vast spending “wasteful” and said British taxpayers should be “livid” at how their money is being spent.
Today the EU parliament formally adopted the spending plan for next year, which represents a £2.6 billion hike from 2017.
This budget is the last one that Britain will contribute to as a full member of the club, with the UK set to leave the EU in March 2019.
No accounting and no audit of how this money will be spent, which also avoids difficult questions. Member countries are filling their boots before the effects of the UK., leaving and drop in budget is felt. When the UK., leaves that will only leave Germany and France as the main budget contributors, to prop up the likes of Greece and former eastern bloc countries.
loos1915
01-12-2017, 11:23
Why is this on the site in the first place? I have views on this but this is totally wrong place to post them.
Gwyn Nicholas
01-12-2017, 12:05
The post is in General Discussions, therefore it is the right place.
Why is this on the site in the first place? I have views on this but this is totally wrong place to post them.
Thats why why it’s called a forum
steve bird
02-12-2017, 20:12
Why is this on the site in the first place? I have views on this but this is totally wrong place to post them.
We all have our own views on this subject why not post them and join the discussion.
LightOrder
02-12-2017, 20:29
Hard border option with the 'Paddys' for me, not ideal but benefits the many over the few. Also it will stop the South trying to blackmail us by using their veto, they will have to sort out their side of the border out as well if they want to preserve the integrity of the EU's land border with the UK.
Brexit: EU will refuse to back UK over Falkland Islands in future UN votes , suggests former ambassador says it all they are just a bunch of ******
Keep reading about offering a second vote on the final Brexit deal but what no one seems to have voiced is if that happens and the vote says no to that deal and we remain in the EU do people think that the EU will welcome us back under the same deal we had before Brexit vote it will probably be yes welcome back you start using the euro next week and we are going to set your taxes etc , Wake up!!
INTERNATIONAL Monetary Fund boss Christine Lagarde called for further progress during Brexit negotiations after revealing her organisation had upgraded the economic growth forecasts for most of the world but the United Kingdom.
strange it’s a French person saying this or am I being paranoid
I like this suggestion for a commemorative Brexit stamp. A jest in good humour of course!
Lars
Lars Sweden contributes 1.7 billion € a year to the EU,the U.K. Contributes 13 billion pound a year with a rebate of around £4 billion I gladly shoot my self to get that money back then at least it will be with my own bow and arrow we will then see how the rest of the EU will react when they have to put their hand in their pockets to fill the shortfall.As a proud Brit I only have to see that **** Barnier come on TVs tonight shout his demands to see that we have made the right decision and the sooner we leave the better and if we do have a second referendum and the vote goes the other way we’ll there will be a lot of people that will never vote again
Just to confirm
EUROPEAN Union states have been told they are facing major cuts due to the massive shortfall in contributions missed by the UK when it leaves the bloc in March 2019, it has been revealed.
The European Investment Bank , the institution for funding new EU projects, and the EU Court of Auditors said thanks to Brexit the bloc is going on a budget diet.
This is the guy that predicted the outcome of the general election and other elections
THE RESULT of a second Brexit referendum is unlikely to change as Brits remain set on their decision to leave the European Union, leading professor Sir John Curtice has said.
Professor Sir John Curtice, who predicted the result of the previous two general elections and anticipated the Brexit vote with great accuracy, said “very little has changed” in relation to the result of a second Brexit vote.
This is a 15 year forecast from the people who predicted doom and gloom in the first few months if we voted leave so this can be taken with a pinch of salt
North East England will suffer a 16% hit to GDP in the event of a 'no-deal' Brexit according to the Government's own analysis, Sky News can reveal.
It is the only region of England with a surplus in goods trade with the EU, and also has the highest per capita EU funding of any English region.
Voters in the North East overwhelmingly backed Brexit at the EU referendum in June 2016, while the West Midlands had the highest vote share for Leave.
In the analysis, the West Midlands is forecast to be the region hit second-worst by a no-deal Brexit, with an estimated 13% hit to GDP in such a scenario.
Meanwhile, Northern Ireland could face a GDP slump of 12% if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, the analysis shows.
Just read this ARCH europhile Guy Verhofstadt has once again threatened Britain with the possibility of European Union rule changes while the country is left stranded within the bloc during the transition period. The European Parliament’s Brexit coordinator said “there will be changes” to the EU’s acquis communautaire – the bloc’s body of laws – which could affect Britain but unable to influence the alterations.
This bloke is just a spiteful and vindictive person and ugly to boot
Philip Edwards
07-03-2018, 22:13
Is this the Christine Lagarde who last year got caught with her fingers in the till, and is not going to be investigated, shame on the EU how can this happen.
She's French what do you expect
Very interesting considering 97% voted to remain GIBRALTAR stock exchange boss Nick Cowan claimed Gibraltarians would now come out in support of Brexit as negotiations with Brussels revealed future "opportunities" outside of the European Union.The Gibraltar Stock Exchange managing director Nick Cowan claimed support for Brexit had surged on the Rock since the 2016 referendum.
Saw this and it makes wonder, if it regards the states as an ally what does that make the UK in threading tariffs against us
(Reuters) - European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said on Thursday that the European Union was a close ally of the United States and should be exempt from impending U.S. metals tariffs.
Well no sooner have I posted my post then they come out with this to prove my point EUROPE is poised to slap huge tariffs on British imports despite such a move being likely to ignite a ferocious trade war across the continent. Experts warn the move is distinct “possibility”, but have insisted preventing British goods from entering the EU would lead to catastrophic consequences for the Union.
But surely we are all allies these European Commissioners are so full of ****
Now the pain is going to start
European Union governments have reacted furiously to demands from Brussels for yet more money to plug the blackhole in EU finances left by Brexit.
In plans for the first EU budget after Britain leaves, the European Commission on Wednesday demanded an increase in spending commitments to £1.13 trillion over seven years from 2021. The current budget is about £955 billion.
Leaders from richer EU countries reacted with disbelief to the plans by the EU’s civil service to increase spending despite the estimated loss of up to £13.2 billion a year from Britain.
Meanwhile, leaders the eastern bloc of EU states look set for a bitter row over a proposed 'rule of law' test tied to cash subsidies, revealed by The Telegraph this week.
The spending plans include a £616 million birthday giveaway in free train tickets for 18-year-olds to travel round the EU and feel more European.
So now we are starting to see the true colours of the EU has they start their vindictiveness they stand to lose as much as us if not more from a no deal so let’s just leave
Keith Jones 989
22-12-2018, 16:03
Yep they will still get in no matter what yes they will continue to try and get in but our government do not have the balls to deport them they the people in the seats of power are afraid of being called raciest just like Mr Enoch powell
Now known to be the most honest British politician of all time!
We have all seen the blame game on Brixit been posted round people stating that those of us that voted to leave are stupid didn’t know what we were voting for etc how ever when it comes to laying the blame maybe they should lay the blame at the MPs who voted it through parliament to give the British public the vote in the first place.It would be interesting to see what MPs said yes to giving the go ahead to vote and because the vote never went the way they expected are now doing everything in their power to stop it
You pose an interesting question there 20. I live near Newcastle now and my mate lives in Middlesbrough, we both voted to leave. Where he lives the majority voted to leave also. He has discovered however that the MP who is supposed to represent the views of the constituents has voted against Brexit!! Clearly not the view of the majority. He confronted this MP at an open forum who refused to answer he they had done this and circumnavigated the question with the usual political bull****. It would appear that quite a few representatives of the people have also done the same thing. I am attempting to research this further and hopefully will be able to get a clear total eventually. They’ve stuffed us mate.
There was a Labour MP from Nottingham on sky this morning who said that when the vote went before Parliament to grant the vote all but one labour MP voted for it.I afraid I have now got to the stage where I will not vote again if they don’t follow through with the mandate given to them in 2016 they keep saying we can’t leave without a deal but we will have a deal it’s called the WTO deal so let’s get in with it and we’ll save 39 billion
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