Capt Schooley RWF - DOW 8 June 1944 Normandy

[Angela G]

My uncle, Capt. R F Schooley, served in the RWF. On his service record it states the following:-

Posted to HQ 9 BR. INF BDE AS GSO.3 wef 14/Dec/43
Wounded in Action 7.6.44
SOS 21 Army Group. Posted 5 Inf Depot 7.6.44
Died of wounds at 04.00 hrs 8 June 1944. (GHQ 2 Ech Pt II<o:p></o:p> offrs "X" List RWF No. 28 24/6/44 refers)

Can anyone please tell me what the text printed in red means?

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[Bob Bacon]

That would be: General Headquarters 2 Echelon Part 2 Orders Officers

I expect he was evacuated on medical grounds (WiA) beyond Regimental First Aid Post and personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units and transferred to the 'X' List. RWF No refers to Royal Welch Fusiliers Part 2 Order Number 28 dated 24/06/1944 that recorded and reported the occurrance

[ap1]

Thank you for your post Angela, a very poignant time for your family. 9 Brigade landed on Sword Beach as part of 3 Inf Div on the 6th June. looking at your info, he was attached to them as a staff officer. Do you have any other information of interest.

[ap1]

I think Capt Schooley was the first RWF Officer to be killed in the D Day/NW Europe Campaign!

[ap1]

If you go to the link below, you can order from the National Archive specific parts of the 9th Brigade War Diary. The link covers Jan-July 1944. Unfortunately its not digitised, so you will have to wait to see the results or visit Kew to view it for free:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details?Uri=C4440725

[Angela G]

Thank you.

[Angela G]

What makes you think that?

[Angela G]

He was mortally wounded on Sword Beach on 7th June and was taken to a chapel close by. The chapel was hit by shell fire and
he died from his wounds at 04.00hrs on 8th June. He's buried in Hermanville. I've been trying to locate the chapel, or the site
of it, but am not having any luck.

[ap1]

I looked through the list of RWF Officers killed in that period, the only other listed between the 6th-8th June 1944 was in Burma. Very few RWF took part in the initial landings, they were attached to other units. The main RWF group arrived with the 2nd wave on the 23rd June and commenced the NW Europe campaign.

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[Angela G]

How do you know this?

[Angela G]

Why do you think he was still on the beach on 7th June, or could it be that he didn't land on the beach until then?

[ap1]

Why do you think he was still on the beach on 7th June, or could it be that he didn't land on the beach until then?

I don't think I said that Angela. He was part of 6th Bde, they landed on the 6th June. He was certainly the first RWF officer to be killed in that operation. I don't know where he was injured or how. I assume you have his service records?

[Angela G]

Do you know if there's anywhere I can find out the disposition of British troops on Sword Beach at the end of 6th June and the dressing stations and command posts on the beach?

[ap1]

I think you will need the brigade diary, his death may be recorded within it.

[Angela G]

Yes, I have his service records, which say he was wounded in action on the 7th and died from his wounds on the 8th. My father told me
his brother was wounded on the beach, taken to a chapel and that was hit.

[ap1]

For interest, what units did he serve with prior to D Day Angela?…From the point that he was commissioned?

[Angela G]

He enlisted on 18.4.1939 into 167 (City of London) Field Ambulance TA (RAMC). He was posted to 166 OCTU Colchester on 8/12/39 and was discharged from the RAMC "Having been appointed to a Commission" on 19th April 1940. He joined the Infantry Training Centre RWF at Wrexham on 4th May 1940.

He was at Southwick House immediately prior to D-Day.

I was told that he was Acting Brigade Major when he was wounded but, so far, I haven't been able to confirm or deny that .

[ap1]

I was told that he was Acting Brigade Major when he was wounded but, so far, I haven't been able to confirm or deny that .

Thats very possible, he was Adjutant of the 13th Bn RWF, some 5 months after being commissioned. That, even by wartime standards is rapid advancement. Clearly an outstanding staff officer.

I still think the Brigade War Diary is your best chance of finding out more. I've just been looking through some old regimental magazine items. The Swansea Branch of the RWF Comrades visited his grave in 2006, laying poppies and a short period of remembrance.

[Angela G]

I'm waiting for an estimate from the National Archives for a copy of WO 171/616.

Do you know if there's anywhere I can find out the disposition of British troops on Sword Beach at the end of 6th June and the dressing stations and command posts on the beach?

[ap1]

Have you tried: http://ww2talk.com/forums/forum/4-main-ww2-talk-forum/

Quite a few experts in there.

[Angela G]

I remember being told that his sergeant visited my grandparents and aunt to tell them exactly what happened to their son/husband on 7th/8th June 1944 - it must have been truly awful for them to learn all the details particularly as my aunt was pregnant at the time. Eleven weeks later my aunt gave birth to their son (my cousin). The death of my uncle came as such a dreadful shock to her that she never really spoke to my cousin about his father and he was
sent away to a boarding school. Fortunately, my mum and dad told me everything they knew about him and I've been able to share much of it with my cousin. For so many years I've wanted to discover where my uncle was and what he did during the lead up to D-Day but it was impossible to apply for his service record(s) while my aunt was alive, however I now have them and I'm gradually finding out more. I'm going to Normandy for the day this Saturday, it'll be my fourth visit and I have a lovely posy of poppies for his grave. I'm sorry that my cousin won't be coming too but he never knew his father, only his step father as his mother re-married, and my uncle means even less to my cousin's children. I just don't want my uncle to be forgotten.

[ap1]

Good on you Angela. We will post his details/picture on our Facebook page on the 8th of June. If you can send us a picture of his grave that would be appreciated.

[Angela G]

Will the 9th Infantry Division War Diaries include those for the 3rd Infantry Brigade?

How should I send the photo(s)? To this site?

[ap1]

No! This is the direct link into the 9th Bde: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/browse/C4440725?v=h You need HQ 171/616

[Angela G]

I've, sort of, answered the question about the photo(s) but please advise which section of the "Gallery" I should send them to.

[Angela G]

That's what I've asked for.

[Angela G]

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[ap1]

I think the group picture is possibly when he was OC D Coy 13 RWF.

[Drew5233]

Hi Angela

Within the Brigade war diary there will be several Officer Field Returns every month. Some field returns in diaries also list what a officers job was so you may get lucky. As a rule officers are well documented in the diaries compared to ORs and their deaths are normally mentioned in some way shape or form. Some just get a mention by name and others get everything. The problem may be the timing of his death, the Bde and the Bns under its command would still be very busy so information may be basic. In short you never know until you look.

The National Archives charge around a £1.00 a page so make sure you are sitting down when you read the quote. A far better alternative would be to use me to copy the diary for you. I charge 10p per page and have been copy war diaries for other people for around 4 years now. More details of the service I offer and some examples of the pages that can be in the war diaries can be seen on the link below and more importantly feedback from people who have ordered files:

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/28717-anyone-require-war-diaries-or-other-files-from-the-national-archives/

I advertise the service on WW2 Talk and Mod the 1940 section of the forum.

Cheers
Andy

[ap1]

Nice one Andy, thats sounds like a great option.I concur on the costs of the NA copying service…I asked for a Battle of Donbaik quotation, some two months in total, the cost was in the £100's

[Angela G]

Hi Andy

Many thanks for your message. The one thing I do know, from his service records, is that my uncle died at 04.00 hrs on 8th June.

I'd like to get back to you about copying the diary as I'm just getting ready for a trip to Normandy on Saturday. I'll be in touch soon.

Regards

Angela.

[Angela G]

I have a photo of him on his wedding day wearing his uniform with jodhpurs and long riding boots!

[Baconwallah]

asked for a Battle of Donbaik quotation, some two months in total, the cost was in the £100's

If the WD was in the IWM, you'd pay at least twice that.

John

[Drew5233]

I have a photo of him on his wedding day wearing his uniform with jodhpurs and long riding boots!

Hi Angela,

No rush and have a good trip. Just drop me a private message when/if you are ready and we'll discuss it further and I'll answer any Qs you have regarding the files. I visit Kew two or three times a month.

Cheers
Andy

[ap1]

https://www.facebook.com/royalwelchforum/photos/a.712867125410894.1073741826.187248521306093/765240003506939/?type=1&theater

[Angela G]

Hi Andy

I'm not quite sure how the PM works. I've sent you a couple - have you received them?

Angela

[Drew5233]

Sorry for the delay-I was working last night when they arrived and didn't finish work until 7am this morning. Anyway I've replied to you :)

[ap1]

Hi Angela,

I think we may have discovered how your Uncle was wounded. Its a day before..on the 6th, on the day of the landings. However in the fog of war, dates slipping in documentation is a regular occurrence. Especially when the command element is the group that is suffering from enemy action. Read the last paragraph:

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[Angela G]

Yes, it could be him although his service record states that he was wounded in action on 7th June and died of wounds at 0400hrs on the 8th.
According to my late aunt, he came ashore at 1300hrs on 6th June. I do know that whichever first aid post/dressing station he was taken to (after he was first wounded) came under enemy fire and he was blown to pieces.

[Angela G]

Hi again!

I'm trying to decipher something on a service record but can't download a copy of it. Any advice?