Brucamps 1944 [Archive] - Royal Welch Forum

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Mathieu

30-03-2014, 15:40

Hello everyone,

I am looking for information about the Fusilier THOMAS HAROLD Royal Welch Fusiliers 7th Bn died September 2, 1944 at Brucamps for the liberation of France.

I am currently in contact with the niece of Lance Corporal SMITH IDRIS EMLYN also died the same day.

I wish to mark the 70th anniversary of our release their honor with the presence of their family.

also i wish if this commemoration is realized, know the procedure for the presence of a detachment of the Royal Welch Fusiliers?

Thank you in advance.

Drew5233

05-04-2014, 23:23

Hi,

First of all it helps if you put his name in the right order - took me ages to find him on CWGC.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2952806/THOMAS,%20HAROLD

according to them he actually died on the 3rd September rather than the 2nd along with Smith. The regimental history The Red Dragon says it was quiet for the battalion between the end of Aug and 4th September and describes an incident which I thought may have resulted in his death (Not uncommon for deaths to be out by a day or two). However a search using Geoff's Wonderful SE for WW2 shows the 7th Battalions casualties listed for that incident on the 4th September.

http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search39-47.php

001 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2965025/)

EDWARDS

EW

123865

11TH BN

02/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

002 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280411/)

GEARY

A

4200581

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

003 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280412/)

GREENWOOD

H

14720277

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

004 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2846696/)

GRIFFITHS

I

4202714

4TH BN

03/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

005 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280413/)

GUILLER

A

4206590

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

006 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2279814/)

HANLEY

PE

14440436

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

007 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2274949/)

HUGHES

TW

4193140

4TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

008 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2846706/)

HUMPHREYS

PA

14436849

4TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

009 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280416/)

KELLY

E

14720294

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

010 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280417/)

RAYBOULD

W

4200640

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

011 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280418/)

ROADKNIGHT

A

4200644

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

012 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2280419/)

RUSSELL

HHW

1507969

7TH BN

04/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

013 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2952805/)

SMITH

IE

4194607

7TH BN

03/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

014 (http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2952806/)

THOMAS

H

4203923

7TH BN

03/09/1944

ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

I would suggest (unless someone knows better than me - this isn't my area) your best bet could be looking in the battalions war diary. This is the battalions war diary ref at the National Archives if you can get there:

WO 171/1392 7 Royal Welch Fusiliers 1944 July- Sept.

Drew5233

05-04-2014, 23:32

Further digging creates a bit of a potential research problem for you. The men from the battalion that died on the 4th are buried in Pernes British Cemetery which is nearly 40 miles away from Brucamps. I'm not an expert on 1944 but it could be questionable that a Infantry unit would have advanced that far within a day so they may have been at Brucamps in a Casualty Clearing Station wounded in a previous fight. Unlikely ish but possible giving the distance.

In short I'd look in the battalions war diary :)

Good luck
Andy

Mathieu

06-04-2014, 09:23

Hello Andy,

thank you for this information, even me I am not expert of this period, I prefer the BEF.
I found the forum on the war diary,
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/15985-7-royal-welch-fusiliers-war-diary/
but there is no party, and most important for me is Appendix No.J1 September 1944.
It is reading the war diary I discovered that Corporal Smith of the Provost and Fusilier Thomas had died on September 2.
I think with this Appendix, I might have other, more specific information on the ambush.

Mathieu (JERICHO)

Drew5233

06-04-2014, 10:56

Mathieu - Are you Jericho on WW2Talk? I provided you with BEF war diaries in the past for your excellent 'Then and Now' pictures.

Swiper may have the appendices. I've seen him post of here to so may be a PM to him could help you out. I think if you copies of the original files you would have grounds to get CWGC to amend their dates of death. Are their headstones marked the 2nd or 3rd Sept?

Failing all of the above I'd be happy to copy the diary for you but it would be the complete file at 10p per page.

Regards
Andy

Mathieu

06-04-2014, 11:18

hi, Andy

I am on WW2TALK Jericho,

I made contact with Swiper to the Appendix and I expect these new

I recontacted if I can not find it

in any case I have a BEF command do you shortly!!

best regards

Mathieu

Drew5233

06-04-2014, 11:34

No probs - just shout if I can help further :)

jungle1810

06-04-2014, 16:23

Drew5233

07-04-2014, 17:02

Hello,
L/Cpl Smith Idris Emlyn 7th Battalion R W F Number 4194607 age 30 3rd of September 1944 Son of Richard and Sarah Jane Smith husband of Florence Marion Smith of Herne Bay Kent Buried at Communal Cemetery.I will look for Thomas asap. info from W W " Casualties of the Royal Welch Fusiliers
Regards jungle1810

See post No.2. If you click on the number next to the name it will take you directly to CWGC where all of the info you have posted is available.

Regards
Andy

ap1

11-04-2014, 20:57

From Forum Member - Jungle1810:

Fus Harold Thomas late of the 7th Battalion R W F. The details I have are Harold Thomas 4203923 died on the 3rd of September 1944 aged 30 years old. Son of Henry and Elizabeth Ann Thomas of Wrexham. Husband ofn Violet Thomas Wrexham.
jungle1810

Mathieu

12-04-2014, 10:31

thank you all for your replies

someone on the forum could you inform me about the procedure to be put in place for a detachment of the Royal Welsh Fusilier be present at the ceremony, who to contact?

thank you in advance

jungle1810

12-04-2014, 11:54

Hello Al,
Many thanks for sorting that out. I am making steady progress with the request from Richard Ward for te photos he wants. I have more to do but it is a labouir of love so to speak.Thanks again.
Regards Don

ap1

12-04-2014, 15:35