David Henry Lang

[jbiscuit]

Not sure where to start looking but hopefully the great knowledge bank here will be able to point me in the right direction! After a recent family get together I have decided to look into my grandfathers general history and particularly his service in the RWF. I know next to nothing about him as he died when my mother was 10. What I do know is that he was originally from Blackburn but met my grandmother Eva when in Wrexham barracks and settled in Wrexham. They married in 1935 when he is listed as a corporal. I don't have his service number but have his DOB as 01/07/1908. I don't know if he was still in service at this point but he died in Denbigh in 1958. If possible I'd like to find more about his service including any WW2 activity and hopefully this may lead me to his later life and how he came to be in Denbigh as he was estranged from my grandmother at this time. He was known by the name 'Harry' but as 'Henry', not David on his marriage cert so not sure what variations of names he may be listed under.

Any guidance gratefully received!

Dave

[ivor43]

Hi.

Welcome to the forum.
i have been looking at the 1911 Census. it does not come up with a David Henry Lang, Blackburn for a dob of 1908.
However it does have a record of a Henry Lang, dob 1905, Blackburn.
Not sure if this is any help.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

David Henry Lang

Birth 01 Jul 1906 in 6, Thompson St, Blackburn, BB2 1, UK

1935 Jun married Eva Ledsham
St. Mary's Roman Catholic Church, Wrexham, UK

Death Sep 1958 in Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales


From Ancestry. The RWF Enlistment Register (RWF Museum) will give his registration number.

John

[ivor43]

hi.

very odd. I have just looked at the Census again with no result for 06.

ivor

[ap1]

Hi Dave, what "Exactly" does it say in relation to David on the Marriage Cert? Is it just "Cpl RWF"

If he was a regular soldier in 1935, he would be a 1st Bn Man, as the 2nd Bn were on foreign duty from 1931 and didn't return until the outbreak of the war. One of our researchers Richard Ward has an incomplete list of men, by name in the regiment. Your "Lang" does not appear, so the enlistment listed suggested by John should be your next port of call, although it won't be a speedy result.

Interestingly Richard also dug up another Lang(see attached) who served with the RWF and was killed in the Great War and…... he came from Blackburn!…Davids father perhaps, or an uncle?

3145http://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gifhttp://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gif

[jbiscuit]

Hi all and thanks for all the replies! I'm still finding my feet a bit with this but the original dob is incorrect, I have 1/7/1906 as a DOB now, although I have spoken to someone in the archives at Denbigh where he died who suggest he was 51 when he died on 19/07/1958 which doesn't tally. His marriage cert lists him simply as Henry in 1935 although he may have met my grandmother some years earlier when based in Wrexham. I have only 2nd hand experience of the marriage cert but am assured he was a corporal at that point or some time around that period. I know his mother re-married into a family in the name of Murphy so it is possible the man cropping up from WW1 was his father but I'll have to do some more digging on that. He died in Denbigh Mental Asylum after a spell of just over a year in there and part of my curiosity is to trace his service and see if anything he experienced lead to his later life. He was estranged from the family for a few years prior to this so no-one really knows anything about him from early 50's onwards. Is writing away for his service record the best course of action?

[ap1]

His marriage cert lists him simply as Henry in 1935 although he may have met my grandmother some years earlier when based in Wrexham. I have only 2nd hand experience of the marriage cert but am assured he was a corporal at that point or some time around that period.

Is writing away for his service record the best course of action?

Firstly I would suggest you get sight of the marriage certificate either from the relative or apply for a copy via the GRO. Seeing it is so important, little clues get missed otherwise. The scenario has already changed Dave, originally you thought "RWF" was on the certificate…But now, your not so sure, so he could have been a TA soldier who got married in uniform rather than a regular? Maybe he never had any war service.

To apply for his service record you will need his "Service Number", if thats listed on the marriage certificate…Happy Days. If its not, try contacting the custodian of the RWF Archives: Dr Kevin Mason - Bodelwyddan Castle (k.mason@bodelwyddan-castle.<wbr>co.uk (k.mason@bodelwyddan-castle.co.uk)) and ask him if they can check the Enlistment Role(They will charge for this). I would get the marriage Cert checked first though Dave, as this will possibly provide a definite time marker and proof of when he was serving in the regiment. Without it all you have is hearsay, which makes your task all the more difficult.

[jbiscuit]

Hi Dave, what "Exactly" does it say in relation to David on the Marriage Cert? Is it just "Cpl RWF"

If he was a regular soldier in 1935, he would be a 1st Bn Man, as the 2nd Bn were on foreign duty from 1931 and didn't return until the outbreak of the war. One of our researchers Richard Ward has an incomplete list of men, by name in the regiment. Your "Lang" does not appear, so the enlistment listed suggested by John should be your next port of call, although it won't be a speedy result.

Interestingly Richard also dug up another Lang(see attached) who served with the RWF and was killed in the Great War and…... he came from Blackburn!…Davids father perhaps, or an uncle?

3145http://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gifhttp://www.zoominto.com/zoomapi/ZoomButt.gif

I have his father as James Lang born 1878 although I'll try and check if there is any relation.

[jbiscuit]

Firstly I would suggest you get sight of the marriage certificate either from the relative or apply for a copy via the GRO. Seeing it is so important, little clues get missed otherwise. The scenario has already changed Dave, originally you thought "RWF" was on the certificate…But now, your not so sure, so he could have been a TA soldier who got married in uniform rather than a regular? Maybe he never had any war service.

To apply for his service record you will need his "Service Number", if thats listed on the marriage certificate…Happy Days. If its not, try contacting the custodian of the RWF Archives: Dr Kevin Mason - Bodelwyddan Castle (k.mason@bodelwyddan-castle.<wbr>co.uk (k.mason@bodelwyddan-castle.co.uk)) and ask him if they can check the Enlistment Role(They will charge for this). I would get the marriage Cert checked first though Dave, as this will possibly provide a definite time marker and proof of when he was serving in the regiment. Without it all you have is hearsay, which makes your task all the more difficult.

Thanks yep I appreciate I'm being a bit vague, I got slightly overwhelmed with information at first look and to be honest the various christian names he used hasn't helped, I will try and get hold of the wedding certificate. I know that he didn't get married in uniform as the only picture I've seen of him is on his wedding day, but my father knows enough from a quick chat with him just now that David/Henry/Harry was a regular and not TA and had a lengthy period of service. One thing that did come to light was that his eldest son, my uncle was born in Aldershot when he was stationed there in around 1936 but unfortunately I know no more about this or how it tallies with any of his service. It bridges the period he met my grandmother and their marriage to suggest he was enlisted for some time however.

[ap1]

Thats some more clues in the pot!

The 1st Bn were in Woking in 1936, which is just east of Aldershot and close enough. They were still in that area in 1939. What was the uncles name? you will need to apply for that birth certificate…Again there may be detail on there, such as his rank at that point in time.

[jbiscuit]

Thats some more clues in the pot!

The 1st Bn were in Woking in 1936, which is just east of Aldershot and close enough. They were still in that area in 1939. What was the uncles name? you will need to apply for that birth certificate…Again there may be detail on there.

My uncles name was also David Henry Lang just to muddy the waters! It sounds like there is a bit of flesh on the bones then, but I'll take your guidance and try and somehow turn up his service number.
He had a daughter, Margaret, around that time too so maybe that will help put a pattern together to establish his movements.

[ivor43]

Hi all.
Looking on 1881 census

http://www.ukcensusonline.com/search/index.php?fn=james&sn=lang&kw=&phonetic_mode=1&event=1881&source_title=Lancashire+1881+Census&year=0&range=0&page=1

Page 2

James Lang born 1878 age 3 Scholar was born in Preston. Lancs. But there are a large number of Lang's in Blackburn.

an interesting entry on the same page.

James Lang. 10 Scholar & weaver Cotton Mill. Mill Hill. Lancs.



ivor.

[Baconwallah]

try contacting the custodian of the RWF Archives: Dr Kevin Mason - Bodelwyddan Castle
Please note that the archive has been moved to Wrexham and is now being installed in Wrexham Museum. The person to contact is Karen Murdoch (Karen.Murdoch@wrexham.gov.uk).

Information requests to the RWF Museum have a waiting list of at least a year. And as both the library and archive have been moved to locations elsewhere, I think that in the current situation any information request to the Museum will be a futile exercise anyway.

John

[Baconwallah]

I have his father as James Lang born 1878

Ancestry lists the parents as James Lang (01 Dec 1878, 81 Greaves Street, Accrington) and Annie Hilton (01 Sep 1879, 78 Whalley Banks, Blackburn).

John

[jbiscuit]

Some progress today although still haven't turned up the elusive service number. I've managed to get hold of his Birth, marriage and death certificates.

Birth: Confirmed on 1st June 1906 in Blackburn where his name is given just as Henry.

Marriage: 6th April 1935 in Wrexham with name given as just Henry again. His rank/profession is given as 'Corporal Royal Welch Fusiliers' and his residence as 'Barracks Wrexham'.

Death: 19th July 1958 (age incorrectly given as 51) with name given now as David Henry Lang and cause of death from a long winded Lung condition. However his occupation is given as 'War Pensioner'.

From speaking to my dad about it and what he recalls of my mum talking about him, he thinks he may have been a Sergeant at some point and picked up the condition that caused his eventual illness in service. He also recalled my uncle talking about his father coming home when he was aged 9 (he was born in 1936) and not recognising him as he hadn't seen him for 2 years. Partially from this and largely from his status on his death certificate it points to quite a long period of service including WW2. Quite frustrating that despite quite a bit of family tree delving done in the past, nothing has been recorded of his service record!

[ap1]

Good stuff, helps build the picture.

We already think he was a 1st Bn man. They deployed to France as part of the BEF in 1939. If you search the forum using the word "Dunkirk" you will find quite a bit of detail. Only a couple of 100 men made it back from the beaches of Dunkirk, most of the battalion was either killed or captured. The survivors then remained in the UK, getting retrained and refitted until 1942. They then deployed to the Far East, fighting the Japanese in India and Burma, including the bloody battles of Donbaik and Kohima. Most of the men returned towards the end of 1945/early 46.