View Full Version : Nisbet Balfour - 23rd Foot
Dear Members of the Forum,
Thank you for allowing my participation.
I am an amateur author/historian seeking an image of Nisbet Balfour for use in a presentation.
My search has been unfruitful so far.
May I ask your advice on where to look? Does anyone have an image or know of one? While I am very familiar with American sources, I am completely unfamiliar with British sources and repositories.
Sincerely,
Chip Bragg
Thomasville, Georgia
USA
Nisbet Balfour (1743-1823)
He was lieutenant colonel of the 23rd Regiment of Foot (Royal Welsh Fusiliers) in 1778.
After the Revolutionary War, Balfour was promoted to colonel and aide-de-camp to King George, III.
He was elected to Parliament in 1790.
He was promoted to major general in 1793 and served against France.
He was named lieutenant general in 1798, elected again to Parliament in 1802, and promoted to full general in 1803.
At his death he was the sixth ranking general in the British army.
Hi
Welcome
this will give you a bit more to be going on with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisbet_Balfour)
http://www.silverwhistle.co.uk/lobsters/balfour.html
I am sure the Research guy's will be able to come up with more.
ivor
A warm welcome Chip. This is harder than I thought!!
One option. I would start looking at the town of Arundel in Sussex. See if the good folk of that area paid for a portrait of their MP? It may be languishing in the towns museum or perhaps one of the stately homes in the area. As you've confirmed its certainly not coming up on google searches. Also have you tried the RWF Museum at Caernarfon?
Thank you.
I did query the RWF Museum at Caernarfon by email but have not yet heard back.
hi
i doubt that you are aware but the setup at Caernarvon is changing.this link might help
http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/showthread.php?18567-The-regimental-archives-sitrep
ivor
Baconwallah
15-01-2014, 23:54
Last I heard, there was a backlog of at least a year answering information requests.
John
hi chip.
i am very surprised with this guy. I can find no sign of a portrait other than this link.
https://www.google.com.mt/search?q=nisbet+balfour&sa=N&rlz=1C1CHFX_en-GBMT541MT541&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=XeHXUuvuGM2ThgeDuoDYCQ&ved=0CFsQsAQ4Cg&biw=1366&bih=682#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=_1-MU57ItAtYzM%253A%3BGe2_0DMBRULRfM%3Bhttp%253A%252F %252Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb2012101522 1030%252Fdynastywarriors%252Fimages%252F0%252F0f%2 52FLOD_Nisbet_Balfour.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fkoe i.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FFile%253ALOD_Nisbet_Balfo ur.png%3B80%3B96
which is not very helpful.
I can find no reference to a picture either of him as an MP or in the index of The National Portrait Gallery, London. I would have expected that a portrait for someone of his prominence to have existed.
strange.
will keep looking
ivor.
I appreciate your efforts. Balfour seems to be somewhat of a ghost.
Chip
hi chip.
i am very surprised with this guy. I can find no sign of a portrait other than this link.
https://www.google.com.mt/search?q=nisbet+balfour&sa=N&rlz=1C1CHFX_en-GBMT541MT541&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=XeHXUuvuGM2ThgeDuoDYCQ&ved=0CFsQsAQ4Cg&biw=1366&bih=682#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=_1-MU57ItAtYzM%253A%3BGe2_0DMBRULRfM%3Bhttp%253A%252F %252Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb2012101522 1030%252Fdynastywarriors%252Fimages%252F0%252F0f%2 52FLOD_Nisbet_Balfour.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fkoe i.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FFile%253ALOD_Nisbet_Balfo ur.png%3B80%3B96
which is not very helpful.
I can find no reference to a picture either of him as an MP or in the index of The National Portrait Gallery, London. I would have expected that a portrait for someone of his prominence to have existed.
strange.
will keep looking
ivor.
Hi again.
I have been looking at the Balfour Family and came across a interesting bit of info. The last line is important.
<(P)
David Balfour.
(Q)
Major Henry Balfour. Born Pilrig House, Leith 13 August 1724. Died 1791. 2nd Batt'n of Royals. While in the British Army, he spent several years in North America. In October, 1761, he arrived in La Baye (today known as Green Bay, Wisconsin), where he took control of a former French post. Married in Edinburgh, 4 August 1765, Jane Elliot (born 1748, died 1815). There is a portrait of Jane Elliot by Raeburn in one of the galleries in Toronto. She was daughter of William Elliot of Wolfelee (b. 1688, d 1768) by Helen Elliot, daughter of Robert Elliot of Midlem Mill. William Elliot was son of Thomas Elliot in Oakwood (b 1659, d 1723) by Jean Inglis, daughter of Cornelius Inglis of Newton. Thomas was a descendant of the Elliots of Horsely Hill.--------- Major Henry Balfour should not be confused with another, and unrelated, Major Henry ('Harry') Balfour who lived at about the same time. The unrelated Major Henry Balfour (b. 1741, d. between 1776-1791) was the older brother of Nisbet Balfour (1744-1823); see the report titled "General Nisbet Balfour of Dunbog, 1744-1823".>
Harry Balfour was the brother who was accidentally shot in the head. But i will see what i can find regarding the Balfours of Dunbog.
ivor
hi again.
I looked up the Balfour's of Dunbog.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barony_of_Denboig/Dunbog
It would appear that this Henry Balfour was the ''Harry'' who was killed in the shooting accident, so Nisbet never inherited the title. If this had any bearing on the fact that there is no portrait, i would not want to speculate.But the loss of the estate may have seriously reduced his financial status, it is interesting to note that Nisbet never Married.
ivor
morning all.
The more i find out about this guy the more i realise he must have been an exceptional soldier. with an impressive pedigree, or he would never have attained the position he did.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Balfour,_Nisbet_(DNB00)
But sadly still no clue to a portrait.
very very strange.
the following link contains a note at the foot of page 128 which gives a slightly different opinion of Nisbet
http://books.google.com.mt/books?id=90tUziO_R6IC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=general+nisbet+balfour&source=bl&ots=ZLPH0TXbN2&sig=_4rg8lFo3jg2VBps9GzhukZQgqo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ikLaUpicE8KG4gTs3YHYCA&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=general%20nisbet%20balfour&f=false
ivor
Hi again.
As i said in a previous post, i would have expected an officer of Nisbets prominence to have had a portrait commissioned either as an MP or as a top General. Especially as he was ADC to the King, you do not get a much higher posting than that. Also i would have expected him to have received a Knighthood at least for ''services rendered''. So i have spent some time looking at what records of the family are available. I think there are a few 'skeletons in the family cupboard' which may have had some influence on Nisbets life.
First. his Grandfather took part in the Jacobite Rebellion in 1715 against the English, and Dunbog was forfeited to the Crown. they were restored to the family in 1720 and 28. Henry Balfour, Nisbet's father gained the title in 1730 He died in 1765. But he further caused upset by naming one of his Daughters ''Stewart'' as a first name.
Second. Harry. I have read that in 1762 he had a son according to the local priest ''Begotten in fornication with one Ann Henderson''.i am not surprised.
The practice in these titled families was :- the first son was to inherit the estate so he was brought up to that ''life style''.
The second son was destined to the Military, a third son to foreign service and a fourth to the Church.
So Harry would have had plenty of opportunity to have some fornication and possibly the finance to live an extravagant life. He inherited in 65 and within 1 year had sold the estate. How this would affect the rest of the family we can only guess, but i doubt they were too happy about it.
Nisbet,on the other hand was an Ensign in 4th of Foot at age 17. He would not have had any expectations with regard to inheriting the title as Harry was only 3 yrs older. his future was the army.
The death of Harry in a shooting Accident involving the other brother Walter, who we next hear of in 'The East India Co' appears to have been accepted as such, or were too many questions actively discouraged, possible.
Now, Nisbet himself, His record seems exemplary, except for his involvement with the execution of the American Col Isaac Hayne. It was called by some a ''legal murder''. having read the account i think in modern thinking it might have been classed as a ''war crime'' , but not then.
It is possible that these odd incidents may have had some background influence on his life. It was interesting to read that Nisbet was ''put into Parliament by Robert Stewart'' who was his Brother in Law. he had married Nisbet's sister Stewart.
It is quite odd that i can find nothing about this guy except in relation to his Very Distinguished military Career. as you say Chip, he seems somewhat of a Ghost.
ivor
dcdl12976
18-01-2014, 14:35
A fire in 1834 destroyed most of Parliments records which probably included the paintings there, so no joy in that line
jungle1810
18-01-2014, 17:36
Hello,
In the book titled "War for America" on page 216 the following occurred"Cornwallis there fore decided to move towards Hillsborough in the hope that this would lead Greene to return north.He would then cross the Roanoke on the lowest ford because in hostile countries ferries cannot be depended on. Cornwallis was still waiting to return to South Carolina if Greene defeated Rawdon and on the 24th of April he ordered LT Colonel Nesbitt-Balfour, Commander at Charlestown to send transports accordingly. The following day he left Wilmington with 1,435, rank and file, leaving the sick and wounded behind, but the march north was not easy. On the 3rd May Cornwallis informed Balfour that He had a lot of sickness etc amongst his troops and was short of provisions and required Balfour to dispatch as much food as possible and force an embargo on all provisions to turn out of town all parole men and all disaffected people, with with their friends and many Negroes, and to shut your gates against many of the poor country people and all Negroes that your stock of provisions may hold out___ I am looking for more info on Balfour it may not be easy.
Regards R B D aka jungle1810
Hi all
I have exhausted google chrome so am now looking on I.E. the first page i looked at has info I havn't seen before
http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/friends/balfour.html
ivor
jungle1810
19-01-2014, 16:19
Hello,
A copy of a letter from Cornwallis dated August 1780 to Col Nisbett is in the Washington papers
"I have given orders that all the inhabitants of this province who have subscribed and have taken part in this Revolt should be punished with the greatest rigour and also those who will not turn out that they may be imprisoned and their whole property taken from them or destroyed. I have likewise ordered that compensation should be made out of their estates to the persons who have been injured and oppressed by them. I have ordered in the most positive manner that every Militia man who has borne arms with us and afterwards joined the enemy shall be immediately hanged. I desire you will take the most rigorous measures to punish the rebels in the district in which you command and that you will obey in he strictest manner, the directions I have given in this letter relative to the inhabitants of this country.
Another letter to Lt Col Nesbit Balfour from Lt Col Stephen Moore and Maj John Barnwell from the prison ship Forbay. on the 18 May 1781
In conformity to your letter of yesterday,. we embrace your offer of forwarding a copy of the same, together with a roll of prisoners on board this ship, and a letter addressed to Major General Greene all of which are enclosed. We could wish for one number might be suffered to attend the flag of truce. We are Sir, Your most obedient humble servants, Stephen Moore Lt Col John Barnwell Major.
I have more especially a pamphlet privately published on Tarleton's South side Raid it also mentions Major Andre. plus more correspondence to Lt Col Balfour.
Good morning.
Brian, thanks for the info in your last post.
I have noticed that there are a lot of links to correspondence with Cornwallis,and others, but as i have been trying to find a portrait i have not looked at it.
I find this Order quite remarkable in it's severity. I had no idea that this sort of stuff was going on.It, to a degree, explains why the American Col was hung. But together with my last link confirms my belief that Nisbet, somewhere ''fell foul'' of someone in Authority.
Obviously Nisbets Financial position was not good , as i suspected. The fact that he was favoured by Howe appointing him to the 23rd (RWF) at a considerably discounted fee, which gave him an Additional £400 of Debt, would not have won him many more friends. Neither would the fact that he was favoured by the Lord's Cornwallis and Rawdon. He certainly appears to have been a very capable ,competent and resourceful officer, even if financially embarrassed.
I think this Financial difficulty may account for the lack of portrait and also be the reason why he never married. It may well have cost him a Knighthood. a pity.
However he was quite human as it is said that in his will he made provision for an 'Illegitimate Daughter'' . so elder brother Harry was not the only one having a bit of Fornication.
Oh and interesting to note that the RWF served as Marines for a while.
ivor.
jungle1810
20-01-2014, 14:29
Hello all,
A little bit more news on Andre and Tarleton. Andre was born in Liverpool and he bought a commission in the 1st Dragoon Guards as a Cornet. And from this position worked his way up to Lt Col with out buying any further commissions. He was despised by the Colonial army for his lack of compassion and the ruthless way he led his troops.More on Tarleton later.Major Andre was born in London. As a 20 year old he joined the Royal Fusiliers he was promoted to the rank of Captain in the Cameronian Regiment.
In my first thread the chapter heading was "Yorktown" where "Gentleman" Johnny Burgoyne surrendered to the Colonial army. So the three combatants in the thread were linked.
Lt Col Nesbit stayed on in America after the surrender at Yorktown to oversee the repatriation of the wounded and captured remnants of the British Army to England as well as other considerations. In Tarleton,s raid on Southside there were about a hundred mounted members the 23rd British light Infantry In one incident they reportedly pillaged a Woman's private luggage and rode away from the scene with women's under clothes on the point of their swords. As Vori pointed re pictures of Balfour I am unable to find a portrait or even a daguerreotype in any of my books.
Balfour joined the King's Own Royal Regiment He was wounded in the battle for Breed's Hill and he fought in Long island in August 1776 Howe sent him to England in September 1776 After Philadelphia he was appointed Lt Colonel in the 23rd in 1778.He sold his Majority in the 4th to Sir James Murray. He went with Clinton to the southern colonies in December and promoted to Brevet Colonel in 1781.
Regards R B D aka jungle 1810
jungle1810
04-02-2014, 15:21
Hello clbragg,
I am in possession of a book written by Jeremy Black titled "War for America" Printed by both Alan Sutton Publishing Limited Stroud and Saint Martin's press New York.
It was first published in the United States of America in 1991,. The preface includes the following. for information write; Scholarly and reference Division Saint Martin's press Inc, 175 Fifth Avenue New York N Y 10010. I do not know if this address is still exists. In this book are drawings and daguerreotypes of 23 Generals and Colonial officers. But not one of Nesbit. The library of Congress may be a good source of info as well.I also have another private publication named "Prelude to Yorktown Tarleton's Southside Raid"By Gregg Eanes.
Regards jungle1810
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