Copper has an ND

[jcj]

http://news.sky.com/story/1005963/royal-cop-accidentally-fires-gun-in-car

In my day if a soldier had an ND it was 28 days (clang watch your fingers) an NCO was a heavy fine possibly busted down and an Officer would make out a VERY large cheque to Regimental charity. I wonder what this copper will get. Apart from the **** being taken and a move to other duties, not likely to get a mention in the next Queen's honours list?

[ivor43]

accidental ? i understood these to be pretty reliable weapons. but as you all know you have to take certain actions before any gun will fire, you have to have one up the spout.the gun has to be cocked. the safety has to be off. and there has to be pressure on the trigger. accidental ?????

[ap1]

A civilian reporter would call it "Accidental". Weapons and humans...it happens. UK SF had an ND during the Falklands war in a helo, on the initial deployment of SBS/NGS into OP's at San Carlos. Even the best do it. The copper concerned would have invested a huge amount of time and effort to get into that unit. He'll be back on the beat Monday.

[jones20]

i'll think you find that police procedures are a lot different to the forces when they load their weapons being a Glock or MP5 they cock and chamber a round also the glock does not have a safety you just take up the pressure on the trigger hence if you catch the trigger on something if it is enough pressure it will go off

[jcj]

No matter the characteristics of the weapon it is up to the user to handle it safely. The old & bold amongst us will remember the SMG (fixed firing pin) you could guarantee ND’s with that weapon. In Aden 1967 1 SWB had one poor lad who dropped his SMG on entering a building in hot pursuit, it landed butt first. The round that discharged went through his throat and killed him. Very sad but true.

[sid burns]

Just thinking about JCJ's comment above "In my day if a soldier had an ND it was 28 days (clang watch your fingers) an NCO was a heavy fine possibly busted down and an Officer would make out a VERY large cheque to Regimental charity"

I've been out ten years now and after such time you realise how badly the soldier was treated!! for a ND 28 days for a soldier or career ruined reduced in rank etc.....an officer a back hander to the officers mess **** up fund. I do really hope things have changed? But I'm not convinced!!

No I never had a ND!! Lol

[Barry69]

I agree with Al and Sid here the treatment of the soldier in the good old days was very unfair, as you say the SMG was prone to accidents, but again it was not tolerated, If it is an accident whilst handling the weapon in an aggressive situation ie training then accidents will happen, I was on a range when a Officer a young subbleton had a ND (oily mits) if he had been held to book for that incident he would of suffer big style, thank god the Range SNCO had the balls to read the situation and dealt with it in a mature and professional manner, Not as it could of been done be Billy the Book type management, Even in my time the Army was changing for the better, Yes the Good old days where fun but not often very fair! This copper has suffered enough already, To the Future and Beyond I say

[benney]

accident B******S NEGLIGENCE YES , :huh::huh:

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Definition of an accident - an unplanned event. We all know and accept that accidents happen and pretty much treat them as fact of life. Unfortunately discharging a weapon has potentially terminal consequences and perhaps the powers to be, considered that wording the event as "Negligence" would have a greater effect on a soldier when handling weapons. I only ever witnessed one live ND in my time, thankfully it was on the range and no-one was hurt. Perhaps that is testiment to the risk of severe punishment handed out, though I agree it was not evenly balanced throughout the rank structure.

[Barry69]

Negligence! "The core idea of negligence is that people should exercise reasonable care when they act by taking account of the potential harm that they might foreseeable cause harm to other people. Now ideal if you operate in a normal environment, but in a operational situation I feel the line reasonable care has greater boundaries as it does in law, ie controls where possible can be applied, and the potential harm ?? Well a live round wanging down a firing range at a figure 11 target or in War time towards the enemy could be regarded as covering fire ??? Weapon cocked in the back of a vehicle yes peace time Negligent, but in a Operational situation possibly a requirement, But what ever we think, a little common sense would not hurt either!

[Thom15]

Someone had an accidental discharge in Londonderry after coming in from patrol. He was at the sandbags by the front gate where everyone cleared their weapons. Apparently he cocked his weapon and then took off the magazine (not the other way around) and not thinking he had a round up the spout fired it into the sandbags. Perhaps he had been out on patrol for many, many hours and was really tired, however, not an excuse. I wonder what happened to him?

[nasher546]

As I do not know the full circumstances involving this incident it is difficult to comment. Except to say, 'he is not the first, and certainly will not be the last'!