Muslim for crusaders

[Dai 55]

I dont expect a big responce to this post,but watching a programme last night it makes me angry this Muslim group are very well protected were ever they go,
on remembrance Sunday they burnt our poppy,a national disgrace in my eyes to leave this happen in our country,we also have another group called the EDL English defence league again a group i do not support but can see there point,they now have over 25,000 members and are growing stronger by the day,Why is this are people starting to get fed up the way this country is going for a number of reasons,can a British person go to another country and dictate what he wants to do No dont think so,come to Britain and run the country as you want and dont do anything about it if your British or you will be PUNISHED GOD HELP US look at the fuss on the burning of the KORAN in Afghan,could you imagine the outcry if a british person burnt the Koran?? but they can burn our poppy this is a political joke and the so called cowardly MPs are to scared to do anything about it.Kick the *******s out

Dai 55

[nick sigallias]

I agree with what you say dai, this country is it seems to me geared up to making it as easy as possible for immigrants to abuse our soft and far to liberal system. I am i member of the BNP for the same reasons that you have mentioned in you text... Im totally fed up with the way our MPs and ministers fail to stand up for britain and the british. And the reason why they dont feel that they have to do it is because the majority of those who run the country dont have to live among them,they have lovely little bolt holes in the home counties. I live now thanks to Mr blair ect in a place thats a mixture of Albainian,slovakian gypsys, somalian,and Iraqi kurds and im not talking about hundreds in talking thousands.. the high st where i live has been taken over,, in fact the whole country have , I flew into gatwick last year and had my passport checked by a hajib wearing muslim. it staggers me it really does. ill stop now our ill get depressed.

[ivor43]

i also agree with you.it is not the same country that i grew up in. i sympathise entirely with the EDL and the BNP. something needs to be done, but none of our politicos have the guts to speak out despite the fact that a large percentage of brits feel as we do.
we now spend most of our time in Malta,it's much warmer than u.k. (usualy) and any one can walk without fear of being Mugged ,Assaulted, or verbaly abused by loads of yobs.we did return to uk last summer (mistake ) to witness the so called '' riots '' these were nothing more than well organised vandalism and looting sprees.The fact that the police were not able to act at first is a symptom of a disease that is common to what used to be called ''services'' police service, fire/ambulance service. bus /train service,military services. when i was a police officer in late 60's/70's if a job had to be done it was done regardless of cost.you can not run a ''service''within a budget.this is why the local police had to stand and watch until they got permission from above.these services have been cut back to the minimum.we do not have enough police to do the job properly and what we have are so restricted in what they can do,compared with us in the 60's, the armed forces do not have the stuff they need. i believe we need a strong police force with the freedom to act as required and a willingness to use military backup when needed with water canon baton rounds and if needed live rounds.the only way to deal with this sort of violence is with equal or greater violence. (controled of course ).
we need to take back the streets to make our towns and cities safe for people to enjoy without fear.in doing this the other religeous/social/ethnic/others will also be shown the error of their ways.

(i feel much better now )

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Whilst I share some of the anger towards these individuals, I think it is a slippery slope to blame a religion/ethnic group for the crimes and actions of such a small minority amongst them. Of course all measures should be taken against the radicals and I am all for deporting them there and then - extended family as well if needs be.

To be fair though (and we are a little too tolerant for my liking), we have to consider the majority and look at what they bring and have brought to this country. For example the amount of Doctors, Nurses and other medical professionals that we have working in our NHS who are of Muslim or Hindu faith. Long before we had the super stores we had the corner shop open all hours with people who were willing to put in the hours whilst the rest of us went to the pub. Many of us i'm sure were grateful to be able to get that bottle of milk for the ovaltine.

Looking at crime, in particular drink related crime from your basic yob ASBO, right up to violent assault. Your every Friday/Saturday night occurance in towns and cities everywhere. Cannot blame the Muslim faith there (odd individuals - not faithful excepted) Indeed I would suggest that the majority guilty of such offences, are of the Christian faith in one form or another.

We do not help ourselves in this country any more. Handouts have been too easy to obtain for too long, the drug/drink culture has grown to almost epidemic status that has the Medical Board warning of a major increase in liver disease over the next few years. Who will take over the show when the home grown fail to show, those who are left sober, fit and willing to work. Their choice of religion/ethnic group will be of no consequence to those who are running the country at the time as long as the job is being done.

[ap1]

I agree Gwyn its a small minority, this is about a small group within an ethnic community. I watched a programme called "My Hometown Fanatics" made by a young Luton born girl called Stacey Dooley. She's not a journalist, she used to work on a perfume counter at Boots or similar. During the programme she meets both ends of the spectrum(Fair play to her, she is feisty when insulted). Interestingly she went to school with the leader of the EDL. Watching the programme, I did feel at the end that the country as a whole has been let down by the politicians, they had allowed segregation and discriminatory actions which favour one part of the community to upset the delicate balance of race relations.

The leader of the EDL made some good points and actually challenged some radicals on the streets of Luton, the results were informative for both sides, he actually came out of the programme quite well. Unfortunately his EDL group are the type of individuals committing anti social behaviour in cities and towns across the country. Probably the type of individuals ex-police officers(including myself) routinely used to enjoy locking up, because of the blight they cause for decent law abiding citizens. The fact they are now seen as a mouthpiece for the majority should be seen as a shameful curse on our political leaders.

Its available on BBC Iplayer for another two days. Give it a go.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cl48b

[bennyball2]

I disagree with the posts above they are all radical, I have some good friends who are muslims and they are just has disgusted as we are with the radicals, if I had my way I would get rid of all the radical groups, maybe then we can all have a peaceful life?? isn't this how the Nazi party started off???

[ivor43]

with regard to the last post.i certainly made no specific reference to any religion. i have no problem with any religious groups be they christian,muslim, budhist, hindu or whatever as long as they abide by the laws of my country.
i believe that Islam as taught by the prophet is good,as is christianity it is only when people try to interpret it to suit themselves that problems occur.however what is happening in the uk is not specific to any religious group but a general problem across the whole of a section of the population.
if you believe my attitude to be radical,so be it. i am 68 years of age and i am totally disgusted with what is happening to my country. if you wish to return to a more peaceful life you will have to support some radical changes or the problems will only get worse.

[rikoshea]

Lads statements have been said here that I agree with on all arguments, however I will not state any religion or culture in my statement as you all know whom I speak about. every major city in this country of ours have these radicals and it is growing faster that my hair, Yes I still have some. The government have made it illegal to join this movement and have started to make small roads into stopping this. I beleive that by doing so are making it harder to monitor the main leaders as theyre more dangerous to us and country. we do not go to their place of worship, as they would not welcome it, they know our religious leaders are preaching love thy neighbour and so on. I have been thinking of joining the EDL or WDL as they are not breeding hatred towards all minority area's just towards the radicals that are being formed by this so called religion. NOT all believe in what theyre doing. I along with others on this forum watched Monday nights programme on C4 and if we're honest with ourselves all thought put a GPMG ontop of a landrover and let rip. over 3000 inocent people died 9/11 and to have this rally outside the US embassy whilst they were remembering their lost, was totally embarassing to see. could you imaging this outside the same type building in belfast no becuse plastic bullets would have been used. lads if this is not stopped and these people who bread the hatred towards us and our beliefs then I feel for our children and grand children in the future. And yes our youngsters today dont help theirselves with the Friday & Saturday night cultures of Drink and Drugs but where is over 80% of these drugs coming from into this country ask yourself.

[Gwyn Nicholas]

And yes our youngsters today dont help theirselves with the Friday & Saturday night cultures of Drink and Drugs but where is over 80% of these drugs coming from into this country ask yourself.

An interesting question, so I had a look. The largest figures for illegal drug use in this country is still Cannabis (2 - 5 million users), Ectasy (470,000 users estimated in the last year) Amphetamines, and Cocaine. Drugs historically associated more with Christian countries such as Columbia and the Caribbean. Heroin (the derivitive of Opium ie poppies) strangely enough has only an estimated 43,000 users in this country. That said, heroin users are more likely to commit serious crime to fund their habit.

Alcohol abuse however still accounts for nearly half of all violent crime and is of greater concern than that of drug users who use say - Cannabis. The point I suppose is, you are more likely to be a victim of Alcohol associated violence rather than a victim of drug related or even terrorist/radical crime. That is a home grown problem and not one that can be directed at any other particular ethnic group especially if the said group never partake in the Grape and the Grain, ie if they dont drink they do not form part of those statistics.

[rikoshea]

maybe not all comes through certain countries, however the main opium types that causes the life of our children are. and as for this said group never partake in the grape and the grain as you say, how many house's of this faith have you been into and how many have you had as friends. cause let me tell you its bollocks cause 90% of the friends I have and have had do all. and if these radicals had their way we would not be watching Wales beat England on a saturday afternoon with our wives in a pub having a few surberts. the wife would be at home with kids and we would be at the local praying establishment on our hands an knees 5 times a day, with no drink or Rugby or any type of sport most prob.

[nick sigallias]

I couldnt give a monkeys if they belived in or prayed to the big giant head!! its irrelevant,, what im saying is the our country has been over run by ok lets use the word aliens.. these people subvert and undermine our way of life, they do it by ghettoisin certain areas of or cities, making the no go areas for the native people. They swamp ort high streets with organised teams of beggers,. the take over en mass jobs such as taxi driver then clog the streets three times a day with iilegaly parked cabs because they are praying..they groom and pray on young girls plying them with drink and drugs, they do this because they are forbidden to mix with girls of there own cuture, I have had dealings with them (im a builder) and in those dealings i have never ever known them to string 3 truthfull sentences together, If you go to meet mr khan, you walk in hello mr khan he says no hes not mr khan hes his cousin, he doesnt own the house, hes the one whos going to pay though. but he doesnt know his cousins name ect ect ect in the end I walk off. if i think that they are asian on the phone i tell them straight that i wont work for them and its because i dont trust them to tell me the truth,its better than being knocked..and i know 100s of builders in cardiff who do the same, you cant trust these people...Its a cultural thing, they are told in the mosque to go out and make as many babies as they can because britain will pay , and that means pay for the islamicaion of the country... there are schools by me with not one white child in it. I was born and bred in the docks in cardiff. I know about multiculturism,, my grandad was from Andros in the agiean sea.. this is a whole new ball game now , and someone has to do something.I feel sorry for people who think that they have to flee the country when they retire because those at westminster have spoilt it foreve
r.

[steve carey]

Some decent points in all comments, Lets see what we say in 5 yrs time, I think a lot of the points raised will be stronger and by most of the country in a few yrs, The corner shops that sell booze in every town and city in this country is none british, they dont care who they sell to or age they are contributing to are self destruction, Take all licenses of corner shops,put pub opening times back to what they used to be (dont have to pay staff all day) no yobs walking the streets with carrier bags of ale causing anti social problems, now thats a start. Steve scouse carey. ynwa

[Gwyn Nicholas]

The radicals of any group will do what they have to do to get a response. That is the nature of what they do whether they are Islamist extremists burning a poppy or a Union flag or a pop stars doped - up anarchist stepson swinging off the Cenotaph. It will get a reaction from right minded law abiding citizens every time which is the whole point of the exercise. It causes disruption, property damage and on occasion injuries to the Police who in my mind, do a very good job maintaining the balance of the protesters rights to protest and criminal activity.

The right to protest, unfortunately comes with the Democracy we as a nation support and indeed"encourage" other non-democratic nations to take up. If we say that Democracy is good thing then we must accept all that comes with it, which means that we have to put up with thoughts, ideas, beliefs etc that we dont necessarily subscribe to. To supress any radical group from making their protest, would actually play into their hands and give them far more credibility than they can ever achieve by open protest by having to go "underground".

In my opinion, these radicals are not a threat to the future of this country. Yes they are dangerous, yes they are capable of inflicting serious damage to people and property but so is any other group who has it it mind to do so. Baader-Mienhoff, ETA and own Terrorists groups are perfect historical examples that spring to mind.

It is the Demographic balance of this country that is a problem for the future of this country as we know it. Since the 1950's the average family size has been dropping in Britain and continues to do so amongst "indigenous" British families. Financial restraints, career women having children later and lower fertility rate (suggested by the medical council as possibly linked to Alcohol use) are reasons given for this occuring. It follows therfore that other ethnic groups who continue to have larger families will over time (and we are talking a long time) be in a majority. That is the way this and other European countries are evolving at this time.

If this country is to change from being a Christian majority to one of another religion, it will take many years and it will evolve naturally to reach that state. Afterall, we were Pagans in this land of ours before Christianity was forced upon us. Terrorists and Radical extremists cannot speed up nature and evolution.

[Dai 55]

Civil War this is were it will all end up Gwyn,i have never felt the opinion of British people start to open there opinions now than ever before,enough is enough and we should all stand together,were will we be in 20 years time ??

Dai 55

[nick sigallias]

The country has changed .. its unrecognisible from the land that 1939-45 vets spent years away to protect.. how do you think they feel.. the problem is integration or lack of it, and mass immigration. When my granfather came to this country he integrated, these "newcomers" dont have to.. they are relying on us to change our ways ... no prayers at council meetings, no prayers in scouts or guides, no xmas plays. no nativity, cant say black sheep.. cant do this cant do that. ect ect and why?? if there is as blairs lie factory told us only 2% of the countries population non british born (which is the biggest lie ever told just look out of the window) then where is the need for the british to change anything. They(muslims) wouldnt change the way they worship if we all decamped to the middle east to live. Everything is dodgy with these people , illegal immigrants, marridge scams, benifit scams, selling fake booze in the corner shops, they have brought nothing but **** to this country , and the same goes for eastern europeans, you cant open a newspaper without finding out that someones done something and hes already got a record for rape or murder. albainians dont come here to work for the post office.. they are here to get away from there own police and make a new criminal start in life. Ill leave you with this ,, how many kurds ,alfghans, pakistanis,or whatever emmigrate to the Russia. ??? not many, thanks to a strong man in charge. thats what we need .

[Gwyn Nicholas]

I'm not quite sure where we are in this discussion now. Are we talking about Islamist extremists who are trying to wind up the the Muslims in this country for Jihad and turning this country into a Muslim state, or the immigration problem we are beset with. Although there are links, they are seperate issues with different ramifications.

In 20 years time or even 50 years time I dont see us being very much different to where we are now provided that immigration is not relaxed any further. If one ethnic group family has 4 children and they each have 4 that is still only 20 over two generations. That compared to the indigenous family who currently will produce 6 over the same period. Although there is a noticable difference in number, the indigenous population is still in the majority and when multiplied by that ratio, the overall figure will be is closer to parity. Therefore, in the short term the only way any group/religion could be dominant in this country is to convert us all to their way of thinking/beliefs. In the long term the country will evolve as it has over hundreds of years from Paganism to Christianity in all it's forms.

[bennyball2]

Some decent posts here, especially Glynn love your posts; but lets look at the past before we look at the present? wasn't it the british that colonised most countries? India, South Africa, Australia, Canada, America, falklands, and loads of others in the commonwealth? so the question I have to ask is whilst we used all these countries to better the united kingdom, with their resources and of course slavery! how can we as a country moan about the expectance of the people of these countries relying on us for safe refuge. look back at the Kenya episode when we took the asian people in, not sure but maybe a few of their descendants may have served in our battalion? what about the people who came from the Caribbean who took the low payed jobs? bus drivers, conductors, any menial tasks that many carried out. Shall we look at why we as a nation fought the 2nd world war, wasn't it that a germanic nation wanted world domination and any one that stood in their way wold be crushed? what came out of this the Nazi Party, Himmler, and his cronies who wanted to destroy anything that wasn't of the arian race. How many brave people from the commonwealth gave their lives for the freedom we have today. Radical people from all races should be stopped, if you don't think its a religious thing then why do they use the cross of the christian church i.e. BNP EDL, to further their cause?? So my opinion is that as we all served as soldiers in he majesties forces fighting for the rights of of our great nation, shouldn't we put any feelings aside and protect all that live in our great island.

So my question is? we are a multi racial society that have lived in peace for years and years; whats changed

[ap1]

Exactly Carl. What do the supporters of the BNP want? A purely white anglo-saxon population?, how does that square with celts? Where do you draw your lines? Who's in and who's out? Watching the Ch4 programme "Muslims for Crusaders" it was interesting when the leader of the EDL tried to introduce an asian member at the meeting.

[dutchman]

whilst agreeing a multi cultural society can be a good thing it is not only the radicals who are causing trouble, breeding contempt and in a lot of cases hate amongst us brits . where i work at the moment there are lay offs and one guy (among many i might add) from yemen was saying quite openly "i will not get laid off they know i will make it a racial issue and they are scared" . you know something he is damn right as well , this country has become so scared to be called a racist or prejudice it will not even do the right thing for fear of being vilified by some mullah or politically correct a** hole jumping on the band wagon . well i for one am not scared and i say sod them if they think they can hold us to ransom just becuase they have a suntan or eat borscht for breakfast then they can f*** off back to where they come from or toe the line like we do ((decent folk do anyway) . we would never get away with it in their countries and quite right so why the hell do i pay taxes all my life like the rest of you so the government can look after some babushka in russia and her children who have never set foot in this country just because her husband works here , stuff that for a game of soldiers not for me i'm afraid and i dont give two hoots who i offend i think ive earned the right to speak my mind in a democratic country in which i was born raised worked raised children and payed taxes . by the same token if the immigrants who come to this country work pay taxes and dont take the p*** i have no quarrels its the limpets carbuncles and scroungers radicals and any other idiot thats wants to change my culture just because our laws give them licence to do so .
i have no doubt some of you will have a go at me for this all i can say is feel free you have earned the right but believe me if you are going to have a go because you thing it is the " done thing " or because this is what you think is the new crusade to make you feel good inside that you are defending the defenceless i wont even waste my time answering you .

[Dai 55]

Al just reading your post and the EDL and BNP have a few Asian/Black members,

[ivor43]

quite right dutchman could'nt have said it better myself

[ap1]

Agreed Dutch, your just prejudiced against scroungers and wasters, not the colour of the skin. I don't have any objections to that.

[steve carey]

Dutchman for priminister.

[nick sigallias]

Its not about colour its about the country being used and abused by people who have know intention of integrating . who are only here to take advantage of our soft laws, the bravest most decorated serving soldier we have is black.. there have been loads of black soldiers who have paid the ultimate price ,, there are many people who have come from all corners off the world who are contributing, i dont want them to go home. But i dont want people plotting to blow us up , ramming there way of life down our throuts, trying to stop our own people worshiping as theve done for years, changing our schools , fleeceing our health service , turning themselves into baby machienes on the state, people are starting to get fed up and it will all come to a head. its down to a simple question.would you be able to do it in there country?/ yes you would .for approx half an hour.

[steve carey]

anybody see the program make bradford british, its on again this week, i think this shows that we cannot be a muti racial country in harmony. steve carey.