William Morris Roberts [Archive]

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tom8204

01-02-2011, 20:11

A friend of mine would like to know any history of her Great Grandather who served with The Royal Welch Fusiliers in WW1, all she has is his name, William Morris Roberts, and a picture attached in the Add-ons below. DOB is not known and which Bn is also unknown. He did not die during the war. I appreciate this is little to go by, but i was hoping the name (which may be popular) would be enough to shed some information on this chap. He appears to be an officer in the photo.

Tom 04

Baconwallah

01-02-2011, 20:22

I know of only one William Morris Roberts:

 Roberts, William Morris, 3965 L/Cpl [photo]
Born in Bangor. Porter. Enlisted 03/07/1908 with 5 Cheshire Regiment. Transferred to 3 RWF 28/01/1909. Landed 02/11/1914. Bronchitis, adm 10 G/Hosp 10/11/1914. to UK 08/01/1915. Re-joined Bn 28/04/1915. Sick, NYD, to UK 03/09/1915. Adm Northumberland War Hosp, Newcastle, 04/09/1915, with VDH and recurrent bronchitis. To Depot 26/02/1916. Discharged MU 21/03/1916. Died 10/10/1916. Buried Colwyn Bay (Bronynant) Cemetery.

Rather an unusual set of Christian names, I'd say. He is the only one I ever came across who was (presumably) named after the author and artist William Morris. He served with 1 RWF and died [I]during the war, although not strictly speaking in the war. Could he be your man?

John

PS VDH is Valvular Disease of the Heart. NYD is Not Yet Diagnosed.

PPS The man in the photo is wearing an Other Ranks tunic. Perhaps the photographer added the stick to increase his martial appearance. It happened.

tom8204

01-02-2011, 20:25

Thanks John, Place of birth and burial strongly suggests he may be the one!

Baconwallah

01-02-2011, 20:29

That's excellent. Tom!

Perhaps you could ask your friend to allow me to use the photo for my book on the 1st Bn? It would be much appreciated.

John

tom8204

01-02-2011, 20:38

John, not him im afraid, Just got back in touch with my friend and she replied- he was born,died and buried in Penrhyndeudraeth in the 50's, she has allowed me to use the photo, so no problem there, the plot thickens.
NB- Morus with a U may refine a search, she said.

Baconwallah

01-02-2011, 20:42

I just found a photo of William Morris Roberts, by the look of him taken rather earlier in his career.

John

Baconwallah

01-02-2011, 20:49

Bad news, Tom. That explains why the two WM Morrises do not quite look the same. But it's the only one I have.

Another approach: check Ancestry.co.uk or the National Archives site for his medal index card (search on name and regiment). That may bring up your man. If you're lucky, his personal file may still exist.
You'll have to pay for the pleasure. Alternatively, some of us have subscriptions to these sites (I do not yet) and could check for you. Give it some time.

John

Hywyn

02-02-2011, 13:25

He is the only one I ever came across who was (presumably) named after the author and artist William Morris. John

.

John.
Possibly so but.... Morris, as well as being a surname is also a Christian name. Traditionally the Welsh did not have surnames and had a christian name followed by their fathers name (known as patronymics) Although this died out in the 18th/19th C and the rural areas were genrally last to discard it you'll find that many Welsh men in WW1 era will have a middle name which is the first name of their father. Just to make it confusing it will not always be the case and may not be so in this particular case!

Tom
There are papers for a William Morris Roberts born Penrhyn DD who was 29 when he joined the 7th Battalion as Pte 2912 on 21/9/1914. Looks like he served Gallipoli and Egypt and post 1917 he moved to the RE. Thing is, how to match this info to yours. Any details of the death/burial available? I'll check the rest of the papers for an address.

Hywyn

Hywyn

02-02-2011, 13:35

Hywyn

02-02-2011, 15:21

John
Re the 1st Bn man. The photo looks as if it's from a book about Bangors' fallen called Cofeb y Dewrion (Heroes Memorial)
http://www.bangorcivicsociety.org.uk/pages/hisso/cofeb/sc77.htm

rest of book
http://www.bangorcivicsociety.org.uk/pages/hisso/cofeb/index.htm

Rough translation on the page in my notes on him below

The main Memorial has ROBERTS W M
The Cathedral memorial has W M Roberts, NCO, RWF
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Bangor</st1:place></st1:City>’s Roll of Service published in The Chronicle in <st1:date Month="4" Day="16" Year="1915">1915</st1:date>: 3<SUP>rd</SUP> RWF BEF 3965
<o:p> </o:p>
Cofeb y Dewrion
<Photo>
William Morris Roberts was the son of Mr and Mrs Rodrick Roberts, 21 Minafon, <st1:City><st1:place>Bangor</st1:place></st1:City>. He had been in the army prior to the war breaking out and he was called up in August 1914 and went out to <st1:country-region><st1:place>France</st1:place></st1:country-region> with the RWF where he was wounded and suffered from gas poisoning. He was buried in <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Colwyn</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> aged 25 years.
<o:p> </o:p>
CWGC: Lance Corporal 3965 William Morris Roberts of the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> Bn RWF who died <st1:date Month="10" Day="10" Year="1916">10/10/1916</st1:date>. Buried in grave C295 at <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Bronynant</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Cemetery</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Colwyn</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>.
<o:p> </o:p>
SDGW:
<o:p> </o:p>
Pension Records: Enlisted aged 17 years as Pte 3965 in RWF SR on <st1:date Month="1" Day="29" Year="1909">29/1/1909</st1:date>. Mobilised <st1:date Month="8" Day="5" Year="1914">5/8/1914</st1:date> and to <st1:country-region><st1:place>France</st1:place></st1:country-region> with 1<SUP>st</SUP> Bn <st1:date Month="11" Day="1" Year="1914">1/11/1914</st1:date>. Back to <st1:country-region><st1:place>UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> with Bronchitis <st1:date Month="1" Day="7" Year="1915">7/1/1915</st1:date>. Returned to <st1:country-region><st1:place>France</st1:place></st1:country-region> <st1:date Month="4" Day="28" Year="1915">28/4/1915</st1:date> to <st1:date Month="9" Day="2" Year="1915">2/9/1915</st1:date>. Indications he was gassed Aug 1915. Discharged <st1:date Month="3" Day="21" Year="1916">21/3/1916</st1:date> no longer physically fit. Discharge address of <st1:Street><st1:address>13 Kyffin Square</st1:address></st1:Street>. Also address of 62 Grove Park, <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Colwyn</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> on the file. File not yet fully read.
<o:p> </o:p>
Also Service Records:

Baconwallah

02-02-2011, 17:17

Thanks, Hywyn, i never knew that the Welsh used a sort of patronymic. Thus I was very surprised at the apparently high cultural standards in Bangor...

The info I had on our 1st Bn friend came from Clive, who was working his way through Cofeb y Dewrion. That's why I had more than the usual short note. Your additions are as always most welcome.

John

tom8204

02-02-2011, 20:32

Wife name Anne Roberts of Castle Cottage, Penrhyn DD. Children Asnath? b 4 4 08, Robert Owen 12 4 11 and Janet 11 11 15-all Roberts (your friends gran or grandad?)

William was wounded shortly after the Suvla landings on Gallipoli 10/8/1915 and at 3rd Gazza 6/11/1917.

Hywyn
Gwilwil

Just past the information above to the great grandaughter, and that him, they are well pleased, she is vey greatfull and is now on the phone(women)
Cheers Tom04

Hywyn

02-02-2011, 20:49

Tom

His service papers are on Ancestry Service Records. 42 pages which is quite a lot for one man. There's obvioulsy more than what I've outlined.

Hywyn

tom8204

02-02-2011, 21:40

Thanks, Hywyn They (grandaughter & Great grandaughter) are really appreciative of the information so far. Thank You