JARVIS/EVANS Volunteer records

[vikingtim]

My Great-Grandfather, GEORGE JARVIS [born 17th June 1877, Gwersyllt] was a Volunteer in the Royal Welch Fusiliers 'pre 1895', according to later records of the Yorks and Lancs Regiment. It is possible that he may have enlisted under the name ROBERT GEORGE EVANS.

I am therefore very interested to know if any records exist of either GEORGE JARVIS or ROBERT GEORGE EVANS for the regiment in this 'pre-1895' period, bearing in mind that he was 18 in 1895. Any help would be gratefully received.

Many thanks. I am proud to have an ancestral association with this great regiment.

[ap1]

Welcome Vikingtim.

Just checked Ancestry, interestingly there is a pension record for George Jarvis of 27 Mount St Wrexham Occupation, Labourer. He enlisted in 1RWF on the 2nd October 1915. He was 38yrs old!! When he enlisted, he was living with his sister. He signed on for short service and answered "No" to a question of whether he had any previous military service! His next of Kin was listed as his sister; Ada Roberts.

Obviously your guy is pre-1895, but without having all the details, its always useful to discount possibles.

[ap1]

In fact...CANCEL!! I have a George Jarvis in 1895 enlisting into 2 RWF on the 17 June 1895 Aged 18yrs and 1 month. His birthplace is "Moss" which is in Gwersyllt. His occupation was given as "Collier"(the entire area was one big pit). He enlisted in Manchester.

His regimental No was 4711. His father is listed as Joseph Jarvis of 29 James St, Cresent Place, Wrexham. He embarked for Malta on the 30 June 1896, then is listed as deserting 1 July 1896.

Strangely enough my Great Grandfather did exactly the same thing in 1896, whilst serving in Ireland, he handed himself in 19yrs later to serve in the Great War, so perhaps my first offering from Wrexham may be the same guy!!!!

His records show he was previously a member of 3 RWF(Militia) with a regimental No 2038.

After 2 RWF arrived in Malta, they held a Board of Enquiry into his desertion. A large list of his missing kit was included in the eveidence, as was his conduct and pay sheet. It appears he remained "Uncaptured"

Does this fit with anything?

[Baconwallah]

Al, I thought I had a reasonably complete J list for 1/RWF, but can find no George Jarvis - only William 6917 and WJ 41278. Given that my sources are often rather careless about initials, WJ may be the same man. Can you add any info at all on 'your' George Jarvis? I do not (yet) have access to Ancestry.

John

[ap1]

He is 36140 George Jarvis. His record shows only "Home Service", before becoming disabled in 1916, which indicates he never made it to France. Although the front page of the enlistment sheet clearly shows 1st RWF.
This query could be an interesting one, given my second post.

[Baconwallah]

Thanks, Al. No wonder I do not have him listed.

I am a bit puzzled by the 1/RWF reference on his papers. A man did not enlist in a specific bn, to the best of my knowledge (with the exception of 3 RWF and the four TF bns of course), but was posted wherever needed. Especially a man who signed for a Regular enlistment. Moreover, 1/RWF was in France. So how did he enlist in 1/RWF, I wonder?

Bit off topic, I fear.

John

[ap1]

George Jarvis from Mount St Wrexham. 38 yrs old on his enlistment in 1915.

2174

[ap1]

George Jarvis from the Moss, Wrexham. Enlistment date 17 June 1895 aged 18 and 1 month.

2175217621772178

[Baconwallah]

George Jarvis from Mount St Wrexham. 38 yrs old on his enlistment in 1915.

2174

Thanks, Al. Never seen this before. Unusual.

John

[vikingtim]

Thanks so very, very much ap1. You have proved right a family 'secret'. My Great-Grandfather was George Jarvis, born 17th June 1877 [son of Joseph Jarvis and Mary Jarvis formerly Shefton]. An elderly relative told me that he had changed his name to Robert George Evans as a result of this desertion. He later served in the Second Boer War as Evans, and also as a Reserve in the Yorks and Lancs [WW1 era] as Evans. We thought he had deserted from the Warwicks, but there are photos of him in uniform sporting the South Africa medal, which puzzled us. Now we know the truth.

On one hand, I am delighted that you have solved a mystery and that I know the original name was Jarvis [he is on various records at various times listed as both], but I feel a sense of unease about his desertion. I don't usually believe in notions of inherited guilt but feel that I should offer an apology for George's action. I am sorry that he behaved so dishonourably and disrespectfully towards a fine regiment.

[ap1]

Happy to assist.

Looking at his conduct sheet, he appears to be a young 18yr old lad with a bit of growing up still to do. Many members of this forum with years of loyal military service will lay testament to the follies of youth! He obviously matured enough to re-invent himself and start afresh. He also continued to serve his country. No shame there Vikingtim.

Incidentally, my own G Grandfather was on the run for 19yrs. His son, was even given a false name at birth registration. However 19yrs later he hands himself in, completes a short sentence and ends up at Gallipoli aged 40yrs old.

[LarsA]

I watched the series "Anzacs" some years back, and one theme was about the german spring offensive in 1918. The CSM in the australian battalion had prior service in the Buffs, but not something he liked to dwell on . During the retreat they were intermingled with a Buff's battalion, where a company commander recognized him as a private that was wanted in the regiment for a criminal offence against an officer while serving on the Northwest Frontier, thereafter deserting (and absconding to Australia). The british officer informed the australian CSM that he was going to report him to face the music. Next thing, the germans attacks and the CSM organises the defence and behaves in way that would merit a MID or a bravery award. The two battalions part, and the Buff officer confronts the CSM and tells him that he is going to report to his CO that he has met an NCO that has behaved in the best traditions of the Buff's and nothing more. They salute each other.

Always liked that one, and prefer to think that all people are deserving of a second chance and forgiveness. Your ancestor obviously lived up to that and took his second chance - in the best traditions of his first regiment...

ATB,
Lars

[vikingtim]

Happy to assist.

Looking at his conduct sheet, he appears to be a young 18yr old lad with a bit of growing up still to do. Many members of this forum with years of loyal military service will lay testament to the follies of youth! He obviously matured enough to re-invent himself and start afresh. He also continued to serve his country. No shame there Vikingtim.

Incidentally, my own G Grandfather was on the run for 19yrs. His son, was even given a false name at birth registration. However 19yrs later he hands himself in, completes a short sentence and ends up at Gallipoli aged 40yrs old.

Thanks very much indeed ap1 [and also to Lars] for your thoughtful, kind and wise words here. I feel better that George did not desert his fellows in battle as such, and you are right- he does appear to have re-invented and hopefully redeemed himself by serving his country in two other regiments. He was doubtless a callow youth, with a wayward streak in 1896. By all accounts, he was later on a good husband and father.

I really am very touched by the responses my query has generated.